Camel Live

Anthe,

 

Ok, lets continue...In the world of classical music sometimes there indeed has been created some extremely dramatc pieces of music.....Gorecki, Barber....yes....all of them...that came into my mind...I also like to advise you to get into some filmmusic...Im sure you will find some greatly interesting pieces there. I always was really fan of Hans Zimmers work....I guess for the obvious reason that it tends to be quite boombastic from time to time...and really can be touching and emotional as we'll....I stil remember I was sitting in the train once...when I was listening to Zimmer...and looked outside of the window and saw the white landscape and the snow....and the world almost looked surreal to me....so amazing....like a fairytale or something......Its indeed strange what music can do to you...the way you see the world, the way you feel....I remember when I was a teenager I listened alot to The Cure for example....not always good for your moods.

When it comes to Beethoven....many pieces are hard hard to get...and only available in Beethoven's Complete Collection...that is released by Deutsche Grammaphone....which I have (87 cd's)...Because alot of only exsisted on script DG some of the pieces were especially recorded for this box...so its essential for the completists....Things like his folksongs or stage performances, think are or rarely performed or never at al. And so it goes also for Beethoven's organ works. Beethoven is not the most famous person for Organ...but still he wrote a few pieces.....that are presented in this box....It looks really really nice, and really liked....but in general I rather listen Bach when I want to listen organ music. The only problem is that the price is rather shocking....first to find it now and second to pay it cos I think back then it costed me about 1000,- Euro. But with DG that is something you can expect...I once had the tought of buying the DG box of Chopin...which is much cheaper, but eventually I stopped collection after I purchased the Wagner Box.....which is also quite nice and all recorded in the Bayreuth Festspiellehalle, also very nice........Some things are truly amazing.....Wagner was a genious too.....I think that its really not that....easy to find a Opera composer of that calibre...I think no-one ever before or after wrote an opera of 16 hours that had to be spreaded over 4 evenings.....Only here too...The Wagner family only recognises every opera composed by him from The Flying Dutchmen....so the 3 before that....are usually seldom performed. Rienzi is one of them...and I think a truly great one....since the use of so much choire....

 

The relation between Nietzsche and Wagner is an interesting, but extremely complicated one. Especially because after a while Nietzsche took distance from Wagner and went his own way. It took Nietzsche a very long time to get away from his friend....and the reason is still not entirely known. Both had one same idol, and that was Schopenhauer, but after Schopenhauer (you should read their correspondence and the way Wagner praises him, and tells him how much the Ring is inspired by his work, while Schopenhauer thought it was total garbage) dissaproved Wagner I think something went wrong...and did it leave Nietzsche bedind....I always thought the problem is circulating around this...but apart from that there is also the question of Ant-Semitism.....Which Wagner cleary was, but Nietzsche only interpteted or made by others as such. On top of that its very difficult to plow through Nietzsche's work sometimes.

 

King Crimson's Epitaph is an amazing piece of work, I think its still one of my favorite songs too. And yes, the mood the song creates and the lyrics that are song are really really in balance with each other....the depression created by the lyrics is perfectly supported by the music, and specifically the mellotron...Its really different in relation to Genesis for that matter...cos it creates such a different mood.....the music is touching, sad and emotional....lots of mellotron as we'll but the lyrics are usually more cheering, or about surrealistic topics and imaginable worlds. Regarding camel......I must say that......I never really payed much attention to the lyrics...I think because I am so overwelmed by the music....that almost entirely determens the mood of the sound in general. And that is quite unique....

 

Now talking about Camel...I still need to look at this pieces you uploaded here, but at home my internetconnection is simply too slow for now...so last night I downloaded the tunes from You Tube, so I hope I can look at them tomorrow and come back to you with a judgement......I must say that writing about music really makes you think about music in a very different way. We prog lovers really like to relate everything to the old masters...so alot of reviews are like.....you can hear clearly the influence of...etc...and I like to try to find that out too, but I also like to think more and more in terms of what is it doing to me emotionally....or what will it do to other people...There is a whole range of people that really dislikes prog..songs are too complex, too long, too less vocals etc...but I think if you know the way, there also are so many songs that can make someone completely hooked right away.

 

I never wrote music myself. I never learned to play and only a little to read notes...But what I always imagine is that someone really musicall talented can hear in their head how it should sound when you do this or that...I only read a piece about Mozart and the way he was composing music...it appears that he started with one instrument and then kept on adding more and more untill he could hear an entire orchestra in his head and knew how it would sound if you do this or that...If you imagine someone is deaf and creates something as the 9th, as Beethoven then it must be that these peple can hear in their head how it must sound if you do this or that, add this or that instrument. And it is very different from the way people make music these days...cos the head is mainly replaced by a mixing desk.....and you just put everything you have under different lines and open a line, another one, begin to compare and see how it sounds......and if its not good you try another and so on. Now in progressive rock I think alot of stuff still comes out of jamming together...and often on the stage....Bands as King Crimson are notorious for that.. So classical music....is so different from all other genres.

I finally got my next blogpost done. Did that take a lot of time and energy! But in the end I got more or less on paper what I meant to say. Only this time it takes a lot of words to say it.

http://www.camellive.com/2009/02/obsession-about-music

Obsession about music

If I would follow the timeline of the concerts, the next video to describe would be the one with Preperation and Dunkirk of the Snow Goose. But that was not the video I wanted to continue with. I even had been hesitating to include that video. Not because of Dunkirk, as I think it is one of the best performances I heard of Dunkirk. I think it has a fantastic power in that concert and it also is amazing to see it played live.

The problem for me is with Preperation. And it is not at all that I do not like that one. I like it as it is played on the original album. It is a very contemplative piece of music which is also very essential in the totality of the whole Story of the Snow Goose. And I mostly like the more contemplative moments in music. I also love those in classical music. I love the adagio in a classical symphony, although somehow those parts are not so well integrated, they seem to be often apart from the rest of the symphony. And that is what I think a band as Camel is very good with. They have many contemplating moments and I feel they fit in very well.

A very good example is Lady Fantasy, which is at times a very energetic and outgoing piece, but it does also have a very withdrawn and contemplating part in the middle. And as much as I like the energetic parts, that part is my favourite. It never was so much before, but after seeing it on the dvd Moondances, I just could not stop listening and watching especially that part. At that moment it feels as if the music really comes from another world, as if it is just a matter of receiving. Really fascinating to see Andy Latimer connected to the world beyond as it seems.

So it is not that he is not capable of producing the beautiful adagio parts in the music of Camel, maybe even very hard to find anyone who is more capable then he is. He really lives his music while he is playing. And as it seems at times he is not even aware of his surroundings. He and his music are often one.

But what was it then what I did not like in Preperation as played on this video? Why did I not want to include it at first? As I think now, it has to do with the voice. For me it is very important to hear the ‘right voice’ with certain music. As much as I love to hear the voice of Maria Callas, I think it at its best in a passionate opera and not so much with Ave Maria. And Erbarme Dich is just beautiful with the right male voice and in my opinion not so much with a colourful female voice. And Im abendrot, one of the four last songs of Richard Strauss, is just perfect with the voice of Jessey Norman.

So it is not that I do not like his voice in general, I like his voice a lot and think it is often quiet, relaxing and effective. But it is just not the essense of his musical performance. And here with Preperation it feels to me that the voices must be more of a background, being an underlying sense of wholeness. And I personally like that part more on the album, where the voices are heard in the background.

Somehow this feels as a very important point. Important in the whole Story of the Snow Goose, but also important in the development of each individual. And besides that also an important point in the human development as a whole. As a point in time now, where individual expression is becoming essential.

This kept going around in my head, but I had no idea how I would write it down. I had no idea what words I could use, how to describe what I meant. So that point of preparation and Dunkirk seemed important in the Snow Goose. It is the battle where the main character Rhayader becomes a hero, but looses his life. And the battle is most impressive shown in Dunkirk.

But before Dunkirk, the decision for this action was made in Preparation. At least that was the idea I got from hearing the album of the Snow Goose. But here in the concert that message did not get through so well in my opinion. Not because of Dunkirk because how that was played here, was even better than on the album. It is really energetic and  impressive and gives a feeling of determination and power which perfectly comes together near the end. But Preparation was not convincing me here.

So I sort of knew what I wanted to talk about, but I could find no way of getting it into the right words. Not that I could not get anything on paper, the strange thing was that I typed pages full. Which is rather unusual for me, as I tend to compress what I want to say in writing, into just a few lines. And often even in just a few words. But although I wrote a lot, I just could not get on paper what I wanted to say, the words just did not seem the right one, did not express what I meant. And it was just so very frustrating. At times this week I thought, why am I so fascinated with this music at the moment. What do I care. Just leave it alone. But I just could not, I had to listen to their music over and over again. And this time I just had to understand why I am so obsessed.

Fortunally I also got to read on an online music forum. I got there because I found out that the music Camel makes, especially their early years, was called Progressive Rock. And the music of Camel fell in the category of ’symphonic progressive rock’ or in short ’symphonic prog’.
And being on that forum I noticed that I am not the only one with an obsession for music. There are many out there who have the same. And it is just absolutely amazing to talk about that. And while talking about it (well reading and writing) it becomes a little more clear to me what music can do. Not that I can find all the right words at this point, but I feel I am getting somewhere now.

One very good lead came from a group which is considered the basic of all progressive rock, King Crimson. Before I came to the Prog Archives forum I never heard of them. But many people often referred to them, and so I got to listen to some of their work. And liked what I heard. Not just interesting, but some of it also very intriguing and catching music, although most is in general to experimental for me personal.

But then I heard several people mention King Crimson’s Epitaph as their all time favourite. I got curious and went searching on Youtube to see if I could find it. Well, I did… and it just blew me away. From the very first seconds I was impressed. The combination of the extremely dark music, the screaming picture from the album cover, the voice, the fantastic instrumentation but above all the overwhelming lyrics.

I have this thing with lyrics, I hardly ever listen to them. At best they are good, but even then the music is so much more important for me. Because if that does not so much for me, if I have no desire to listen to it at least 10 times in a row, I just consider it music I like. But on the other hand there is music I am obsessed with, music I want to hear over and over again. Often I do not understand the lyrics (3th symphony of Gorecki) or they are religious (Schubert’s Ave Maria, Mozart’s Requiem and Bach’s Erbarme Dich) or actually mean nothing and is a made up language (Lisa Gerrard from Dead can Dance). Or with the music of Pink Floyd, which I like along with the lyrics. But still the music is much more important to me. And with Camel I also like the non lyrical vocals a lot. So somehow the meaning of the lyrics was not of the most important. Much more important was if it sounds perfectly coherent with the music.

But then I found that video of King Crimson’s Epitaph with the lyrics. I read the lyrics while hearing the music and was just shocked. There was this text which is from the late 60s and it had just the subject I was thinking about for such a long time now. The whole text was extremely intriguing, but the most I was impressed by the middle part, because that is what I was thinking about the most.

Between the iron gates of fate, the seeds of time were sown.
And watered by the deeds of those, who know and who are known.
Knowledge is a deadly friend, if no one sets the rules.
The fate of all mankind I see, is in the hands of fools.

To me this bears the essence of human development. The free will we all have in essence. But which is only effective in the right mix of action, skills, knowledge and responsibility. Well something along those lines.

That is what I see as essential in the development of the music of Camel. And that is what I think I felt on my first concert in 1984. So I thought about writing my next blogpost about the video that started my obsession with their music. And I knew for sure it was somewhere at the concert of Pressure Points.

Although I was listening to their music for a few years at that time, and it was more or less the only music I listened to, it did not have a real meaning to me until then. It were just a lot of albums I happened to love. But then I got to the concert. The concert was in 1984 and it had a very huge impact on me. And I have always wondered why. Was it the fact that it was my first concert? Was it the fact that it was in a relative small space with very loud music? Or was it the music itself?

When I found all the videos on Youtube slowly I became aware of what it was, that impressed me the most.

First I thought, it was Stationary Traveller, because that is absolutely one of my favourites. Then I thought it was Lady Fantasy, because I remember very clearly that I was very surprised to hear it. They played Long Goodbyes (which has one of the most amazing guitarsolo’s at the end) and I thought the concert was over. But to my surprise the best (at that time) had yet to come. Parts of the Snow Goose and Lady Fantasy. Which was really fantastic.

But then I got the dvd. And from the very moment Pressure Points started I knew that was the one that had the most impact. On the album Stationary Traveller, Pressure Points is a relatively short track. I like it a lot, but it really is nothing compared to the live version. When I heard it again now, it immediately pulled me back in and I was totally overwhelmed. It has an inescapable sphere, it draws you in and there is no turning back.

So I realised, that there was the point where it started for me. That moment where I realised what music can do. But still, although I felt clearly what it did, I had no way of describing it in words. And it did nothing else than going on in my head, trying to find the right words. There was a connection with Preparation and Dunkirk of The Snow Goose, and there was a strong connection with the live version of Ice. 

Ice that I must have heard many times before, because I immediately recognised it when I heard the video as it was uploaded on Youtube. But it was so much more impressive now I heard the video with the live performance, it is so really is so incredible powerful and impressive. I heard someone use the word haunting. And that was exactly how I felt the impact, having a deeply disturbing effect. And that is the same I felt with Epitaph of King Crimson.

But here I did not only hear, see and feel it, my brain could also take it in. And it very much gave words to my perception of the music. Which as I see it, is a very important point in the process of the human development as an individual, but also in the process of human development as a moment in time. This moment in time.

I will try to put my thinking about that it in a more structured and (I hope) more logical blogpost, but here I first will try to describe the video of Pressure Points.

The video is from the dvd Pressure Points and it does not have the bright colours and the amazing camerawork of theMoondances dvd. Which is a pity of course, but on the other hand it does very well fit the sphere. The sphere of beautiful music in a very dense atmosphere. And somehow I just very much love that combination.

The video here starts with a sort of added story on the dvd, which all looks very dated now. But somehow it does fit the feeling of being torn apart. It is given in the form of the divided Berlin just after the second world war, and the concert was in the the time a few years before the fall of the Berlin wall. But as dated as it is, I think it is a very essential theme, not just for the world a that time, but also for each individual. The struggle between the individual autonomy and the oppression of the outside world. And about how you might want to avoid that struggle, because it is just to difficult at times to deal with.

But it is easy to just skip the intro and start with Pressure Points. It is a much extended version, much longer and much more intense than the version on the album.

The start as I feel it is a very dark drum with the extremely crying of the guitar. Very expressive and outgoing with a firm base of the drums, starting more slowly, but increasing the speed as it goes on. Then the keyboard produce an erratic and very speedy sound which seems to even further speed up the guitar and lets it produce some extra creativity.

But then the energy completely changes, and the bassguitar takes over, which gives an extremely depressing, dense but at the same time incredible beautiful atmosphere. And it definitely sets the tone for the whole piece. This goes on for a while and Andy’s guitar is only occasionally highlighted in the back ground. Then his guitar comes in more strong and more melodic, but a the same time very melancholic.

The next is a very close picture of his playing and you can just watch the searching for every next note, as if there is not direction any more, as if the rest has to be invented yet, there seems no way out of this, it is so difficult to escape from this depressive feeling because it is so mesmerizing and comforting, but at the same time there is this feeling of need for an expression. But then he seems to give up, and what you hear seems a very desperate cry, which really gives the feeling of giving in. A complete surrender, there is really no way out, there is nothing left to do then to accept.

Then the guitar stops and the keyboards take over. A real special moment as you hear the leading keyboard give a high and melodic melody, repeated again and again. But at the same time there is a very, complete opposite dark and deep sounding keyboard complementing it. And this goes on for a while, but nothing the dark and deep can do to stop thecheering melody.

Then, as if the guitar has been listening to the repeating sounds, he steps in. As he has listened and found a ground to react on. And starts to play his own melody now, perfectly backed up by the ongoing melody of the keyboard, and the bassguitar that seems to acompagny him now. 
Then the guitar seems to have found a new way of expressing himself, but this time much more in harmony with the other instruments.

What also impresses me very much here are the drums. It is also a very dense and compact sound, which also gives very much the idea of suppressive and coherent sound. And that starts already with the beginning, and it stays in the background a while and continues the rhythm, although it goes up if the guitar speeds up. But it stays quiet with the bassguitar. As if there is no need there for the drum at that time. The bassguitar seems to represent the soul that has not much volume, but sooths and is a very attractive and appealing serene sound.

And this is the music that gives a certain feeling which is similar with the live version of Ice  and King Crimson’s Epitaph. They all have it in a different way, but somehow the theme seems the same. The intensity, the inner conflict, the density, the despair and the darkness. But also the enormous power and beauty.

Somehow I see those themes also in the Snow Goose (Preparation / Dunkirk). But there it is a battle in the outside world (Dunkirk). Here with these three the battle is the inner conflict, the conflict with the use of a free will. A free will that wants to express itself and needs the space to do so. But that space is limited. There is an outside world that oppresses and limiteds. And possible to the extend that the individual gets paralysed and in despair will give up.

But the beauty of the music of Camel is that there is always a way out as it seems, an immedate shift of emotion if needed. A creative solution to any given situation. But at the same time the realisation of a world beyond the individual and take full responsibility for any conscious action. I think that was somehow the message I got when I was at that concert all those years ago.

Personally I do indeed think that Moonmadness was their creative highlight, but then I am referring mainly to the Moonmadness concert as I watched it on the dvd Moondances. I think it was an absolute perfect reflection of their creativity at that time, in that setting.

But I also think that the dvd Coming of Age is another absolute highlight, which was the result of a process of years, starting with Raindances.

The concert Raindances is also on the dvd Moondances and it is just absolutely sensational to see the difference between the two concerts on that dvd. There is only one year in between but it is really totally different. Where one is confident, powerful, coherent and strong, but at the same time sensitive and perceiving, seems the other in everything the opposite (although also amazing to watch). And I am mainly talking about the live performance here, because I do not think I ever heard the album Raindances as a whole. And as it seems that album is for some really a highlight, which I can totally see. It is just so totally different, especially the working together as a band. But I do think that it was the basic of something that finally would grow into something like Harbour of Tears and a concert like Coming of Age.

When I got that dvd a few weeks ago I was mainly fixed on what I already knew, and Harbour of Tears itself sounded a bit odd to me at first. But I heard it a few times now and I think it is absolutely fantastic. But I think it just has to be listened to as a whole. It are really not seperate tracks (although there are a few that I just had to listen to a whole lot of times in a row for a while, one was Under the Moon, it is less than 2 minutes but I listened to that for more than an hour, I think it is just so very moving). But I think it all fits so perfectly well together, it is as one ongoing movement, going from one emotion into another with no effort as it seems.

But the fact that I am mainly fixed on the dvd's is that I just need to see things. I need to see what instrument is playing, who is playing it and I just need to see facial expressions and body language. Well, I all have to see that in order to understand it and make it into a story myself.

It really amazed me to read all the reviews here that could describe all those albums. Before I watched the dvd's it actually just were sounds to me that I happened to like a lot. But I had really no idea what was what. Maybe that just needs practise, or maybe it is the difference between men and women, or maybe it is the difference that some are better in perceiving audial (is that the word) and others in visual.

Funny by the way that you seem to mention a few that I hardly know. I listened again to Arubaluba and I actually like it a lot. God of Light I never heard so I went looking. I did not find it yet, but got totally distracted by some of Rajaz, especially Lawrence. Boy do I want that album now.

But it is also special that you mention the bass of Ferguson. Somehow that is one of those sounds that I never really noticed. But lately I am more and more noticing how important that is in what I like so much about Camel. But again, in order to be aware of that, I just have to see it first. Strange maybe for others, especially on a music forum.

Camel albums in nieuw jasje

Er komen binnenkort deluxe versies op de markt van de albums ”Music Inspired By The Snowgoose” en “Moonmadness” van de prog grootheid Camel.  Tevens kun je een expanded versie van “Raindances” tegemoet zien. De nieuwe uitgaven worden rijkelijk voorzien van live-opnamen. Deze versies worden alle uitgebracht door Universal Music.

The Snowgoose (disc 1)
1. The Great Marsh
2. Rhayader
3. Rhayader Goes To Town
4. Sanctuary
5. Fritha
6. The Snow Goose
7. Friendship
8. Migration
9. Rhayader Alone
10. Flight Of The Snow Goose
11. Preparation
12. Dunkirk
13. Epitaph
14. Fritha Alone
15. La Princesse Perdue
16. The Great Marsh - Instrumental Reprise Version
17. Flight Of The Snow Goose - Instrumental Single Edit
18. Rhayader - Instrumental Single Edit
19. Rhayader Goes To Town - ‘Live At The Marquee’ Instrumental Version
20. The Snow Goose/Freefall - ‘Live At The Marquee’ Instrumental Version

The Snowgoose - BBC Radio One ‘In Concert’ (disc2)
1. Rhayader Goes To Town
2. Sanctuary
3. The Snow Goose
4. Migration
5. Rhayader Alone
6. Flight Of The Snow Goose
7. Preparation
8. Dunkirk
9. Epitaph
10. La Princesse Perdue
11. The Great Marsh
12. Selections from The Snow Goose - BBC TV ‘Old Grey Whistle Test’

Moonmadness (disc 1)
1. Aristillus (Instrumental Version)
2. Song Within A Song
3. Chord Change (Instrumental Version)
4. Spirit Of The Water
5. Another Night (Album Version)
6. Air Born
7. Lunar Sea (Instrumental Studio Version)
8. Another Night (Single Version)
9. Spirit Of The Water (Demo Version)
10. Lunar Sea (Live At The Hammersmith Odeon)

Moonmadness (disc 2)
1. Song Within A Song Live At The Hammersmith Odeon
2. Excerpt From The Snow Goose (Live At The Hammersmith Odeon)
3. Air Born (Live At Hammersmith Odeon)
4. Chord Change (Live At Hammersmith Odeon)
5. The White Rider (Live At Hammersmith Odeon)
6. Preparation/Dunkirk (Live At The Hammersmith Odeon Instrumental Version)
7. Another Night (Live At Hammersmith Odeon)
8. Lady Fantasy (Live At Hammersmith Odeon)

Raindances
1. First Light
2. Metrognome
3. Tell Me
4.  Highways Of The Sun
5. Unevensong
6. One Of These Days I’ll Get An Early Night
7. Elke
8. Skylines
9. Rain Dances
10. Highways Of The Sun (Single Version)
11. First Light (BBC “Sight & Sound” In Concert)
12. Metrognome (BBC “Sight & Sound” In Concert)
13. Unevensong (BBC “Sight & Sound” In Concert)
14. Skylines (BBC “Sight & Sound” In Concert)
15. Highways Of The Sun (BBC “Sight & Sound” In Concert)
16. One Of These Days I’ll Get An Early Night (BBC “Sight & Sound” In Concert)

I was indeed wondering how that works, but somehow it is, what is called, streaming music. So you just play it without downloading. Earlier I thought there was a possibility to also download, but I do not see that now anymore.

Maybe that is the whole idea then, that you get to the site everytime you want to listen to the music and see the adds.

But the collection on Deezer is really huge. Pink Floyd for one has more than 30 albums there, although on some there are just a few tracks.

But it got me really wondering how it works, how legal and ethical it all is.