John Petrucci iz Da Shiz.

Well, that's absolutely fine. I find it very easy to distinguish Petrucci's style, but I can understand perfectly that if you can't identify with it, you're not going to get a huge amount of it. Just like I have a problem with Govan - I myself can't hear much individuality, but we all reap different rewards from different musicians, and that's what makes variety so refreshing. The only word I'd question is tasteless - I've moved away from things like jazz, like you have from shred, but I wouldn't ever consider a style that I have gone off tasteless, as such. It all has its place, don't you think?

Fieldofsorrow wrote: What amazes me about this entire discussion is that everyone has attacked Petrucci's emotion, without realising that it's there all along. His light and shade, his mood changes in his lead work, and the emotions that he succinctly evokes are the entire reason why I listen to his work! Every solo conjures a different feeling - 'Lie' is furious, 'As I Am' is menacing, 'Fatal Tragedy' is introspective, 'Under a Glass Moon' has a somewhat celestial feel, and 'Octavarium' is beyond the point of despair.   Whether he is shredding, or playing melodically, I personally feel that Petrucci is a masterful storyteller, and he technically deploys many harmonic devices to captivate me everytime. Sure, I couldn't JUST listen to him and no one else, but that's the same for any player.   And I don't think that's even his strongest asset. For me, he is first and foremost, a songwriter. The musical intricacies of practically all of his work with Dream Theater (perhaps excluding certain moments in Systematic Chaos, and one little slip in Octavarium) is absolutely jaw dropping, and how he so neatly strings these beautifully coherent and dynamic ten, sometimes twenty minute masterpieces together is beyond me. I truly believe he is the best at what he does - that is to say, that he is the best songwriter for progressive metal alive.   He's by no means perfect - but name a guitarist that is? I may be alone here, but I feel that JP's frequent use of 32nd notes is by no means a turn off, and I think that people that consider his playing cold and devoid of emotion are not hearing the same player I am. Anyone agree?

He's alright, but he got a bit lazy after the first few albums. There's nothing wrong with shredding, what's wrong is the fact that recently it seems his solos hinge upon it. You listen to solos off of stuff like Under A Glass Moon or Voices, and that's class stuff. He plays at a pretty fast clip, but not for the whole solo, and when he does do it, it has a pretty solid effect. Compare that to most of the TOT album, where he doesn't stop shredding. Not only that, but he has at least one solo (frequently more) on every song, whereas the earlier albums had cuts without solos, or solos that were less prominent. The whole thing kind of just reeks of this whole vibe that says "Hey, how can we turn this five minute song into an eleven minute song? I know, we'll just have John and Jordan w**k off for six minutes!" You can tell that he frequently really isn't putting his mind or heart into his solos any more, he just kind of does them. Having learned most of the songs of ToT on guitar (I can't play most of the solos but I have at least analyzed them) this is my major frustration. He's beginning to sound like a parody of himself.

Now that's an interesting point. You see, I completely disagree. I think that the Petrucci/Rudess dual leads are all very singular, and capture the mood of the song pretty neatly. Octavarium's harmony runs conjure vivid images, as do the ones in 'Beyond this Life' and 'This Dying Soul', all portraying their own colours and shades. I know it's a litte showy, but it's creative and singular, as no one does them as well, and it adds something important to the structure of the songs for me. 

Fieldofsorrow wrote: Now that's an interesting point. You see, I completely disagree. I think that the Petrucci/Rudess dual leads are all very singular, and capture the mood of the song pretty neatly. Octavarium's harmony runs conjure vivid images, as do the ones in 'Beyond this Life' and 'This Dying Soul', all portraying their own colours and shades. I know it's a litte showy, but it's creative and singular, as no one does them as well, and it adds something important to the structure of the songs for me.    But hey, I like the combination of harmonic innovation and the presence of the emotions created by them. And I respect and understand fully the reasons why you get bored of them. Being a big fan of Dream Theater will naturally lead me to disagree about many aspects about the writing of music with others, but I'm always happy to discuss these things because I love music so much.

You know, it's interesting because I'll actually agree pertaining to the instrumental sections. This Dying Soul in particular, the intro is phenomenal. Like the harmony leads on guitar, and then the synth melody right after that leading into the verse, very powerful stuff. Conjures up all sorts of cool mental images. But to me there seems to be a big distinction between the instrumental sections and the solo sections. While the instrumental sections are often top-notch, the solos bog it down a ton, and when they do conjecture up powerful images or emotions, nine times out of ten its the rhythm and harmony doing it, while the soloist just barely manages to not ruin it completely.

Well, there you are. I think DT approach their actual solos in a similar way to the way jazz musicians do, in that they try and do something harmonically brilliant, or some very swift line to hook the listener. What I think a lot of prog appreciaters realise, however, is that there is so much more to a solo than that. For me, nine and a half times out of ten, he captivates the essence of the song, and that is far more important than what notes he's playing. But Steve Morse, or Al Pitrelli, or Trevor Rabin, or Marty Friedman could do the same for another that Petrucci does for me. They will all uniquely (and succinctly if it works well) add something to the overall number - if their style works for you.

PetrucciPal wrote: Fieldofsorrow wrote: Well, there you are. I think DT approach their actual solos in a similar way to the way jazz musicians do, in that they try and do something harmonically brilliant, or some very swift line to hook the listener. What I think a lot of prog appreciaters realise, however, is that there is so much more to a solo than that. For me, nine and a half times out of ten, he captivates the essence of the song, and that is far more important than what notes he's playing. But Steve Morse, or Al Pitrelli, or Trevor Rabin, or Marty Friedman could do the same for another that Petrucci does for me. They will all uniquely (and succinctly if it works well) add something to the overall number - if their style works for you.   When I think about it, we're probably all quite similar in that respect, it's just what we look for to satisfy our needs that differs.   Well, they WERE in the jazz part of Berklee, or whatever. lol or so I hear.

DavetheSlave wrote: Petrucci is quite simply the best prog / rock guitarist out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the unbelievers - well try to emulate his guitar style!!!!! Guitar w**king - SO!!!!!  Do what he does and then let's talk about it!!!!

Edited by crimson87 - December 29 2008 at 18:49

But since I am no musician. I can't appreciate the technical aspects , I just guide by my likings.

Yeah , I do. But check the album Hat and Field by Ain Soph and you 'll realize what I am talking about.