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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 13:52
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I don't really think that this is what is being said.  But I think that what is being referred to is that within the progressive rock community there is a perception, whether right or wrong, that bands from the United States for which the "progressive" label may apply are treated as second class "citizens" of the prog world, with Kansas being the A number 1 example of this perception. 
 
AOR is a mostly US form of rock that is treated as though it is prog's ugly stepsister.  Depending on the website and the person judging the band, AOR bands are either Progressive, progressive related, or never played a prog note in their lives.  Again, just look at any thread discussing Styx or Kansas. 
 
Now in no way do I think that those on the genre teams make their band acceptance decisions based on these perceptions, but I do think that these perceptions exist throughout the forums and throughout the prog world and I think that is the point that was trying to be made.


exactly... I think emotions are too raw here and people need to back off.. and maybe listen.. this is an appreciation thread.  I'd hate to report posts guys...

the previous poster was not attacking genre teams.. trust me..I am an expert at recognizing it.

he spoke to what Scott said here..  general perceptions... 

now... I am working on my first SD review as a way to get this thread on topic..

can you all help me..  please....
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 13:57
Is this a threat?
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 13:58
Originally posted by E-Dub E-Dub wrote:

Is this a threat?


a threat?  I don't make threats LOL A joke.. but humor is lost here.. so I guess I won't bother

*example A that people need to cool off*

LOLWink
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 14:06
With the absence of the emoticons, I didn't detect any humor. My bad.

E
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Points: 66264 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 14:23
Alright, not so much appreciation, but a silly story.  OK it is probably a "you had to be there" silly story but anyways here it goes. 
 
I am also a Tom Petty fan.  And for those of you who read my posts and think that this guy thinks that everything is prog, that is not true.  Tom Petty is not prog. Although he is in my collection and everything in my collection is prog so....Wink  But I digress.  Anyhow, my friend and I went to see Tom Petty in concert, but she wasn't that familiar with him.  So every time a Tom Petty song would come on the radio I would ask her who the singer was.  She would say I don't know and of course I would respond Tom Petty.  (We play this game with Rush too, but that is another story).  Anyhow, the Steely Dan song "Do It Again" was playing on the radio.  At the time, I didn't know who that was so I asked her who it was.  Of course, she responded Tom Petty? Alright, that was the funny part that you had to be there for so if you were waiting to laugh now is your time.Wink  Anyhow, as is always the case, once the song was completed the DJ didn't say who the artist was.  I was pretty sure that it was on an album that I had but I really couldn't figure it out.  When I got home that night, I pulled out a bunch of CDs and played various songs that I thought it might be, but I couldn't figure it out.  I tried googling it as well, but without much luck.  Needless to say it was a rough night of sleep because I couldn't get that song out of my head and I couldn't figure out who the artist was.  I'm anal that way.  Anyhow, the next day I did figure out that it was Steely Dan.  I asked a friend at work whose husband happens to be a big Steely Dan fan, and she knew who it was.  Anyhow, not too soon after I went out and purchased a Best of Steely Dan CD and that was how I found out that I was a Steely Dan fan.  Not rabid mind you, but I do like the couple of albums that I have subsequently purchased.
 
 
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 14:31
An underappreciated live album is Steely Dan's Alive In America. Excellent set list and a band that features both Peter Erskine and Dennis Chambers on drums. I always seem to see it in the reduced bins and wonder why. It's a wonderful album. Pick it up, if you have the opportunity.

E
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Points: 66264 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 14:35

Thanks E.  I'll definitely keep my eyes open for it.
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 14:53
It's got a pretty strange cover, but don't let it fool you. Big%20smile

A different version of "Reelin' In The Years" is on it, too. The only downer is Walter Becker's "Book Of Liars". Alright tune, but not a fan of his voice.

E
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 15:19
Clap thanks guys..    great story Scott..  will tell my first SD experience in my review of the album.
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 17:46
posted my first SD review..    and see this gem.. Great one Chris...

Steely%20Dan%20-%20Aja%20CD%20%28album%29%20cover

Aja

by STEELY DAN



Review

Chris Stacey
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4%20stars Like a sleeping giant. Aja is an album that oozes class. Jazz rock with heavier progressive inflections all over it make it debateably their most progressive album to date. Adding to their already perfectionist ' behind the scenes' studio indulgences, Aja took a different direction and in many respects followed on from the ' Royal Scam' track off the same titled previous release. Except Aja has no jagged edges, it is so smoothe you will probably slip off the couch just listening to it. ' Black Cow' sets the album off onto a quality note, great chorus work and note the ubiquitous prescence on Timothy B Schmit of Eagles fame adding vocal work. No bass this time but his voice contributing to the overall vocal sounds. The next song is ' Aja' and is the finest and most complex song off the album. Great keyboards, strong jazz sounds and this song needs to be listened to, to be fully appreciated. ' Deacon Blues' another firm favourite, great melody and distinct sounds. ' Peg' and ' Josie' are more returns to the jazz funky elements but for that steady slowburn emotion ' Home At Last' and ' I Got The News' revisit the Aja soundscape. As I said Aja is a sleeping giant, complex, slumbering but oh so smoothe. Seldom visiting my archives of sound does anything come close to being quite as slick and sophisticated as Aja. Unless you are familar with their following album Gaucho! A solid four and a half stars.



Edited by micky - August 30 2008 at 17:46
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 18:37
^ great one indeed
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Phil View Drop Down
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Points: 1881 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 19:09
Blimey; SD in PA. Flippin eck.
 
I am a HUGE Steely Dan fan; all the albums - group and solo - concerts - T shirts - blah blah - but I really struggle with the idea of their inclusion in PA. Not because their music isn't progressive in the dictionary sense of the word; certainly not because they aren't musically one of the most sophisticated bands around; just that my gut instinct tells me it's not right. And I'd venture most music critics and the band themselves would not apply the label.
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 22:08
Originally posted by Phil Phil wrote:

Blimey; SD in PA. Flippin eck.
 
I am a HUGE Steely Dan fan; all the albums - group and solo - concerts - T shirts - blah blah - but I really struggle with the idea of their inclusion in PA. Not because their music isn't progressive in the dictionary sense of the word; certainly not because they aren't musically one of the most sophisticated bands around; just that my gut instinct tells me it's not right. And I'd venture most music critics and the band themselves would not apply the label.


the band themselves would scoff as being labelled progressive rock... or anything for that matter.  They were quite unique.  It is often said. .and is very true.. there really isn't another band out there that sounds like them .

My gut instinct tells me.... that once you remove labels... that the prog fan would love them and over time.. see exactly what we said. The differences between them and established prog acts.. are acutally rather small.  . Look at all the fans they do have here, and how respected they are among prog fans.  Ever stop to wonder just why they are?  There is reason. Is it tradional prog.. of course not..  but is it prog...  who knows.. some think so... some don't.  They fit... because this site has not limited itself to those who are only 'known' as prog.  Those that think that the site should be... will disagree no matter who much they like the group.. those who have a more open ended view of things. That prog rock was not a genre.. but a a movement... welcome SD. 


tomorrow...  Countdown to Ecstasy gets the Micky treatment...  will be hard to top Rollie's review though.

and again.. thanks guys for keeping the thead on topic ... for the most part that is...  if you disagree with the addtion.. PM  me.  I will try to expain to you in cold hard terms why they were added.. you might not still agree.. but if you have any sort of open mind.. you'll understand the logic behind it.
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2008 at 10:51
No need for the PM, Micky. I'm on firm footing and know where this band belongs on PA. Too bad it's not in the General Music Discussion, but that's not my choice, nor the choice of the majority. Big%20smile

E
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2008 at 11:36
ehh... it is not the majority I am concerned about Eric....  most do not know the group. That is why additions are not voted upon here.

as I posted earlier.. those who really do know the group.. are split... and experts here.. for this site... on two teams.. thought this was a good addition.  I honestly expected the uproar from the general forum.. not collabs who should know better than anyone..that this is a collaborative site... and sometimes there are groups added that you won't agree with.. but the point is..  others do.  That their opinions are respected.  My offer of a PM was for those with an open mind.. not for those who have them made up. 





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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2008 at 12:17
Just how do you know who does and doesn't know the group? Not being a wise a**, but just curious. Was a poll taken?

And don't kid yourself, Micky. I saw a lot of people in the CZ who didn't approve.

And with it being a collaborative site, I think everyone is entitled to voice their opinions. I haven't appreciated that simply because some of us don't agree we've been labeled as closed minded.

You know what? It's over and done with and you won't hear anymore from me. Me and the family are heading out to a water park before they close for the winter and I'm in a pretty good mood; however, It will be interesting to see if the same mindset within those involved is present when Sting, Phil, Toto, Journey, etc. are proposed.

E
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2008 at 12:38
Originally posted by E-Dub E-Dub wrote:

Just how do you know who does and doesn't know the group? Not being a wise a**, but just curious. Was a poll taken?

hahhaha.. polls?  we haven't used them since the site started using genre teams.  LOL Polls defeat the purpose of having a team.  Which is not a bad idea ... but many collabs wouldn't like it. Maybe someone could suggest we ditch the genre teams and go back to voting en mass for additions.

And don't kid yourself, Micky. I saw a lot of people in the CZ who didn't approve.

and don't kid yourself Eric.... a lot of people were put off by the ferocity of the oppostion and stayed out of it.  I told them I would handle it.. and I did because not everyone likes the politics and bullsh*t of this site.. Not a lot of people think that an addition is worth tearing apart a fellow collabs about if you want to talk about the CZ.

And with it being a collaborative site, I think everyone is entitled to voice their opinions. I haven't appreciated that simply because some of us don't agree we've been labeled as closed minded.

Shockedhahahah oh brother....this is why discussing this has no point or purpose ...   I didn't say you were closed minded.. I mean those who had their mind made up regarding the merits of the addtion. Are you looking for me to insult you... you seemed to what to think I was threatening you yesterday. I am not insulting people. threatening them.   You seem a bit unbalanced here Eric. Sorry an addtion you disagree with affects you much. 

You know what? It's over and done with and you won't hear anymore from me. Me and the family are heading out to a water park before they close for the winter and I'm in a pretty good mood; however, It will be interesting to see if the same mindset within those involved is present when Sting, Phil, Toto, Journey, etc. are proposed.

E

well have a good timecClap.   We'll see some some of those when or if they ever get proposed. Many of them belong here in one place or another.
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2008 at 13:03
hahahha.. .  love the silent majority... someone who has been following this.. but wants to stay out this (says I am doing a fine job)  asks me to post this.

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=748

listen to those samples... then listen to ...pretty much anything by SD.LOL




where is all this coming from.. it isn't the music.

Isn't that what we are here for... that is what my job as a collaborator is about.


Edited by micky - August 31 2008 at 13:06
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2008 at 15:42
It seems to me that those who have voiced adverse opinions regarding SD's addition have done so constructively and civily. There have been no accusations made, no finger pointing, no suggestions that the addition was not done in good faith, just simple objective views that the the band were not right for the site, or at least for a prog genre (I think the views for prog related are slightly more even).
 
There does seem to be a rather simplistic assumption being made that those who opposed them do not know the band as well as those who supported them, or that the nay-sayers have a less informed or narrower view of prog. I don't think any of these assumptions hold water.
 
I appreciate that this is intended to be an appreciation thread, but if the pro SD folks prolong the discussion relating to the wider issue of the addition, those against must also be permitted to respond.
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2008 at 16:26
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

 

 
I appreciate that this is intended to be an appreciation thread, but if the pro SD folks prolong the discussion relating to the wider issue of the addition, those against must also be permitted to respond.


Clap  and that is the end of discussion regarding this.. thanks Bob..and if there are further posts here .. not regarding the thread starters purpose. I know you'll move them.  If responding to posts is prolonging a thread.. what does that say abut those who use an appreciation thread to question an addition

and don't answer that LOL  and I will leave off topic posts alone and trust they are moved with the same alacrity that other off topic responses are in other threads. 

and back on topic.. .starting a new review.. of an album that all have to have.. and hear.
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