Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 19:30 |
jimmy_row wrote:
I agree that Kaye ultimatly wasn't versatile enough, and Jon & Chris certainly knew that, hence the solution. |
it wasn't that he wasn't versatile... he could play the hell out of a Moog. I have an album on which he plays that.. a Jazz album none the less 
Edited by micky - May 24 2008 at 19:31
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 18:37 |
Yea, I agree with you. But what I was getting at...I think as a band they would have been popular regardless because the songwriting skills were no different with the lineup changes; as you'll notice, they still had much of the same sensibilities by the time Drama came out (I got this one not too long ago as well, it's pretty darn good). It wasn't so much a matter of execution, but how everything was created on the drawing board, which is the approach that makes a succesful group in most styles of music (possible exception of jazz, some blues...), especially progressive rock if you ask me. So they would have had more hits, no doubt, in the vein of All Good People; but I agree that Kaye ultimatly wasn't versatile enough, and Jon & Chris certainly knew that, hence the solution.
|
Signature Writers Guild on strike
|
 |
TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 17:52 |
jimmy_row wrote:
: Tony Kaye & The Yes Album
I get the feeling I'm the only one here that really likes...loves that one. I think that if they would have kept going with Kaye they would still have made it "big", perhaps not the way they did with Wakeman, but we'd be talking about them nonetheless. Now, I'm a huge fan of all kinds of vintage keys, so Wakeman is like the king of '70s English prog, but there's something about Kaye's style that I really like (...and I'm usually not into the more "one-dimensional" players, ie. those guys that relied solely on hammond organ in the early 70s). That big blocky sound that you talked about Rob, I love it...maybe my favorite tone of all the hammond players (IMO it trounces all over many of the better musicians). I would probably give The Yes Album 4 stars whereas Fragile would be 4.5 and CttE 5, so in the end I think that Kaye could've stretched out more as the music demanded but it doesn't hut, overall, that much. |
I've always found Kaye's style likeable, but I think it wasn't *able* to do what Wakeman's range of every keyed instrument known to man could. Even on the organ parts, Wakeman's style has seemed more sophisticated and versatile (to me, and I don't know much about keyboards, despite learning to play them). Basically, I think that if Kaye'd continued with them, he'd really have had to make more use of the moog and develop his piano stylings somewhat. I think they'd have improved from TYA, certainly, but I don't think they'd have become the masterly group they did.
okay...I was a little bit surprised on that one Actually I think we have very similar preferences with music (or at least prog) the only big diversion of course being Genesis, and also that yucky Krautrock stuff (I'm going to ignore Duran Duran...damnit I shouldn't even mention them here, sincere apologies to Rob - I didn't mean to ruin your thread ). My intro to Yes outside radio was several years ago when they were repackaging the classic albums. They started getting heavy FM airplay because of this and I remember falling in love with Roundabout, Long Distance Runaround, and South Side. I started with that 3 cd anniversery set, and needless to say the second track (Yours is No Disgrace) absolutely blew my mind; the intro is still one of my top prog moments period. As a newbie, I couldn't really notice any difference between the blonde dude with funny capes and the original guy, so I agree with your review Mick, the player probably didn't matter that much at that point (Moraz was a different story) because the other trademarks were in place with Howe on board. |
I was introduced to them with CTTE and The Yes Album, and then got Fragile-Relayer-GFTO. Just got Drama recently. I did instantly notice the drastic difference in style between TYA and the rest as far as keys went. I've always seen the Caped One's appearance as developing the band from a psychy unit with some good-great moments to a massively sophisticated and polished band. Before Wakeman, the building blocks were there, but the cement wasn't.
|
 |
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 17:00 |
maybe I have been so passionate in expressing my love for Tales I don't mention enough how much I LOVE The Yes Album.. I did post in one of the myriad of Yes threads we have had in the last month that that album was my introduction to them.. and Yours Is No Disgrace blew me clean away. Love it.. love the whole album
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:46 |
micky wrote:
jimmy_row wrote:
re: Tony Kaye & The Yes Album
I get the feeling I'm the only one here that really likes...loves that one. I think that if they would have kept going with Kaye they would still have made it "big", perhaps not the way they did with Wakeman, but we'd be talking about them nonetheless. Now, I'm a huge fan of all kinds of vintage keys, so Wakeman is like the king of '70s English prog, but there's something about Kaye's style that I really like (...and I'm usually not into the more "one-dimensional" players, ie. those guys that relied solely on hammond organ in the early 70s). That big blocky sound that you talked about Rob, I love it...maybe my favorite tone of all the hammond players (IMO it trounces all over many of the better musicians). I would probably give The Yes Album 4 stars whereas Fragile would be 4.5 and CttE 5, so in the end I think that Kaye could've stretched out more as the music demanded but it doesn't hut, overall, that much. |
check my review of it You aren't the only one hahha
and agree 100% with that
|
okay...I was a little bit surprised on that one  Actually I think we have very similar preferences with music (or at least prog) the only big diversion of course being Genesis, and also that yucky Krautrock stuff (I'm going to ignore Duran Duran...damnit I shouldn't even mention them here, sincere apologies to Rob - I didn't mean to ruin your thread   ). My intro to Yes outside radio was several years ago when they were repackaging the classic albums. They started getting heavy FM airplay because of this and I remember falling in love with Roundabout, Long Distance Runaround, and South Side. I started with that 3 cd anniversery set, and needless to say the second track (Yours is No Disgrace) absolutely blew my mind; the intro is still one of my top prog moments period. As a newbie, I couldn't really notice any difference between the blonde dude with funny capes and the original guy, so I agree with your review Mick, the player probably didn't matter that much at that point (Moraz was a different story) because the other trademarks were in place with Howe on board.
|
Signature Writers Guild on strike
|
 |
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:43 |
^ *over my head hahahha*
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:38 |
Aw, micky, been developing your use of the edit button?
|
 |
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:20 |
jimmy_row wrote:
re: Tony Kaye & The Yes Album
I get the feeling I'm the only one here that really likes...loves that one. I think that if they would have kept going with Kaye they would still have made it "big", perhaps not the way they did with Wakeman, but we'd be talking about them nonetheless. Now, I'm a huge fan of all kinds of vintage keys, so Wakeman is like the king of '70s English prog, but there's something about Kaye's style that I really like (...and I'm usually not into the more "one-dimensional" players, ie. those guys that relied solely on hammond organ in the early 70s). That big blocky sound that you talked about Rob, I love it...maybe my favorite tone of all the hammond players (IMO it trounces all over many of the better musicians). I would probably give The Yes Album 4 stars whereas Fragile would be 4.5 and CttE 5, so in the end I think that Kaye could've stretched out more as the music demanded but it doesn't hut, overall, that much. |
check my review of it  You aren't the only one hahha and agree 100% with that
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:18 |
TGM: Orb wrote:
micky wrote:
great review Rob .. I understand your points ... but I'll toss this out for discussions sake... I think that downgrading an album for lack of textural tones...or for lack of flow or change is slippery slope. Does YS deserves 4 stars simply because there is nothing pastoral and 'light' on it. It is in a way the polar opposite.. yet the same in many regards as this album.
|
The downgrading isn't because of the lack of change, but more that it doesn't really move me or generally evoke imagery/ideas. If I don't really love (ELP) or find extreme interest (Nursery Cryme) in an album, it won't get the full rating from me, no matter how few holes I can poke in it.
The musical 'flow' of the album is perfect in both Ys and Per Un Amico, in my opinion, but it's solely musical flow without any atmospheric/image flow on most of Per Un Amico (for me). Ys has both. It's really just a subpoint of the 'doesn't move me', in this case. In pretty much any given song from Per Un Amico, I feel like I'm oscillating vaguely within the pastoral feel. In Ys, I feel like the music is developing and bringing me through the journey throughout the album.
Also, Drama has been great so far (partway through Run Through The Light). I did, for some reason, expect disappointment, but it was definitely worth getting. Thanks for worshipping it on the forums 
|
I see where you are coming from
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:18 |
|
Signature Writers Guild on strike
|
 |
jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:15 |
re: Tony Kaye & The Yes Album
I get the feeling I'm the only one here that really likes...loves that one. I think that if they would have kept going with Kaye they would still have made it "big", perhaps not the way they did with Wakeman, but we'd be talking about them nonetheless. Now, I'm a huge fan of all kinds of vintage keys, so Wakeman is like the king of '70s English prog, but there's something about Kaye's style that I really like (...and I'm usually not into the more "one-dimensional" players, ie. those guys that relied solely on hammond organ in the early 70s). That big blocky sound that you talked about Rob, I love it...maybe my favorite tone of all the hammond players (IMO it trounces all over many of the better musicians). I would probably give The Yes Album 4 stars whereas Fragile would be 4.5 and CttE 5, so in the end I think that Kaye could've stretched out more as the music demanded but it doesn't hut, overall, that much.
|
Signature Writers Guild on strike
|
 |
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:15 |
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:14 |
I love Benefit. .the opening track is my favorite of all Tull songs... the rest of the album isn't far behind..
glad you like Drama as you do..
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 13:58 |
Review 43, Arena, Asia, 1996, PR (but with some progressive material)
  
After really enjoying the plain
high-quality rock of Asia's debut and subsequently being extremely
disappointed with the banal Alpha, I decided to take a look at some
of their later and more progressive output. The material and sound
has completely changed from the 80s supergroup, and only Geoff Downes
remains from the original line-up. It is, however, still quite
satisfying, especially on the longer songs, Day Before The War and U
Bring Me Down. The playing is good throughout, even if John Payne's
voice goes very weird during the harmonies, and occasionally the AOR
block-choruses don't really work. Essentially, a good album, and
worth getting for the high points. It's a bit of a shame that we have
to put up with some of the dross among these.
Some wallowing drums from guest open
Into The Arena, which is a soft instrumental with a rather Latin
feel. Geoff Downes gives us some standard background keys while the
two guitarists play around, one providing acoustic edges, the other
electric soloing. After a few minutes, a percussion solo calmly leads
us out.
The following Arena is a very good, in my opinion,
rock song, with a combination of swelling organ (and occasional
keys), a relaxed percussion-bass combination and tolerable vocals and
lyrical material. Short twists on the guitar feature throughout. A
fairly good piano near-solo from Geoff Downes features (separately we
get an equally decent guitar solo), and the song ends on a subdued
and distinctly good note. Good song.
Heaven is a more awkward
song, with the AOR vocals in full position on the chorus. A fairly
dancy combination of the guitars and keyboards open the piece.
Payne's vocals sound entirely right for the verses, but the repeats
of the chorus (complete with jumpy keys) at the end do make it a
little less fun to digest. We get a tolerable, even if it's not Carl
Palmer, drum part from Michael Sturgis, and also another good guitar
solo. A rather weird glockenspiel-like use of the keys features
throughout the song. Not especially good, but not terrible.
Two Sides Of The Moon is a
progressive-leaning track, with the guitars especially seeming quite
odd to me, occasionally appearing quite dissonantly. Geoff Downes
again provides his pretty standard keyboards, and we get another
tolerable drum part. The vocals aren't particularly strong, but
they're fine for the song's purposes, as are the lyrics. A rather
more grainy section (bass-driven) with a guitar solo and weird
percussion choices, features around the three minute mark. After the
vocals are finished, we get another bizarre section with more of the
odd percussion and a weird guitar solo, as well as a sung 'Two sides
of the moon'. A good song, and the first of the album's real art
rock/crossover prog offerings.
Day Before The War (clocking in at
around 9 minutes) begins with a tense combination of instruments,
very atmospheric and quite cautious in its development. After a
minute or so of this, the organ-guitar riff kicks in, along with a
thunderous piece of double-bass drumming. In another minute, the
battle is concluded, and a more relaxed piece of music appears, with
acoustics and keys featuring most prominently. An appropriate vocal
from John Payne continues for a couple of minutes, before another
more rock-based instrumental section kicks off with a bass-throb
behind it, good drumming. A more martial continuation of the song,
following another couple of verses, is very well-handled, with
another set of crashing drums and dissonant guitar-work. A good piece
of art rock, I think.
Never is the first example of
banally-bad material on this album, with a completely uninteresting
upbeat feel, tapping, repeated drumming, boring jumpy keyboards, and
only slightly redeeming guitar-work. The vocal is generally mediocre,
and degenerates into a rather bored chorus with a generic guitar
behind it. Terribly boring, and an abberation, given that we've so
far had a set of good, or at least, not-bad songs.
Falling does again pick up the album a
little, though it's not particularly impressive. A rather awkward
performance on the vocals and a needlessly repeated keyboard part
does limit the piece. There are a couple of better moments when the
song is a bit quieter, and the guitar-work is given the opportunity
to be heard, but I'm no particular fan of this song, either.
Words again features a needlessly
optimistic and jumpy feel. Not particularly interesting, even if it
opens and continues a lot better than the previous two. Repeated
riffs and ideas simply don't do that much for me, and the AOR
vocal-demon again features, which isn't too desirable.
U Bring
Me Down (7 minutes or so in length) is a complete 100% overhaul of
the banality of the previous three pieces, with a
masterfully-developed opening, some 'Pakistani-influenced' parts from
guitarist Aziz Ibrahim, and a superb keyboard-riff from Downes. The
vocals are brilliantly handled, and the counter-rap (it's not as bad
as it looks on paper, believe me) is very intelligently used. The
lyrics are good, the music is superb, with great guitar-parts,
especially, fairly interesting drumming and some keyboards which are
slightly more eclectic and catchy than most Downes choices.
Absolutely great art rock/crossover prog, and the album is worth
getting for this reason alone.
Tell Me Why begins with a
fairly random keyboard effect and continues as a weirder AOR piece,
with a repeated guitar part and some keyboards which feel rather
vestigial. The piece just feels rather unnecessary, with far too many
annoying vocal repeats to be pleasant to listen to. Not as bad as,
say, Never, but not particularly great, either.
Turn It Around
is a slightly more sophisticated vocal-driven piece, with some good
keyboards and a decent rhythm section. The guitar part is quite
enjoyable, and it does provide a good, conclusive feel.
Bella
Nova is an uplifting instrumental conclusion to the album, with an
unfortunate amount of repetition of individual sounds, even if you do
have some more added every now and then. I'm not really the best
person to judge this sort of layering, but I don't think it really
adds anything to the album.
That Season is a tolerable piece,
with a fairly good guitar solo. It's nothing to shout about, but its
inclusion doesn't really hurt the album as a whole. The acoustic
version of Two Sides Of The Moon is a nice inclusion, though, with a
decent feel and a twist on the album version.
So, all-in-all, there is some very good
material on here, as well as a few pathetically bad songs. Not a bad
album, and I think most progressively-minded people here will find
something to like in the three or four more sophisticated pieces.
Rating: Three stars. Favourite Track: U Bring Me Down
--- Another more fringe album. Only 22 ratings for this one, even if 6 are collab. Sorry for appalling detail/reviewing on the worse AOR pieces, but I find it difficult to really explain their substance. We'll miss you, Linus Edit: Finished Drama, which I loved 4/5ish stars. Machine Messiah was the long and obvious track. I've also listened to Benefit, which was really quite odd. Didn't know what to make of it. I did like it, though. No idea about rating.
Edited by TGM: Orb - May 24 2008 at 14:03
|
 |
LinusW
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 11:23 |
Oh, and I might as well mention I won't be around much for the next couple of weeks. Two exams coming up, both in the same week, so I need to keep myself on a tight leash. Will try to get a few review submitted though. I need some stimuli after all
|
|
 |
LinusW
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 10:55 |
If an album doesn't touch you it would be the worst kind of betrayal to give it five stars. What separates a 4 star album from a 5 star album is that the latter just lifts up your spirit in way that you really can't explain.
I sometimes feel they are really hard to review as it's almost impossible to defend an album with so many emotions involved. People may make perfectly reasonable negative points about it, and yet it's perfect.
It's a thin line.
|
|
 |
TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 10:19 |
micky wrote:
great review Rob .. I understand your points ... but I'll toss this out for discussions sake... I think that downgrading an album for lack of textural tones...or for lack of flow or change is slippery slope. Does YS deserves 4 stars simply because there is nothing pastoral and 'light' on it. It is in a way the polar opposite.. yet the same in many regards as this album.
|
The downgrading isn't because of the lack of change, but more that it doesn't really move me or generally evoke imagery/ideas. If I don't really love (ELP) or find extreme interest (Nursery Cryme) in an album, it won't get the full rating from me, no matter how few holes I can poke in it. The musical 'flow' of the album is perfect in both Ys and Per Un Amico, in my opinion, but it's solely musical flow without any atmospheric/image flow on most of Per Un Amico (for me). Ys has both. It's really just a subpoint of the 'doesn't move me', in this case. In pretty much any given song from Per Un Amico, I feel like I'm oscillating vaguely within the pastoral feel. In Ys, I feel like the music is developing and bringing me through the journey throughout the album. Also, Drama has been great so far (partway through Run Through The Light). I did, for some reason, expect disappointment, but it was definitely worth getting. Thanks for worshipping it on the forums
|
 |
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 09:49 |
great review Rob  .. I understand your points ... but I'll toss this out for discussions sake... I think that downgrading an album for lack of textural tones...or for lack of flow or change is slippery slope. Does YS deserves 4 stars simply because there is nothing pastoral and 'light' on it. It is in a way the polar opposite.. yet the same in many regards as this album.
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 09:38 |
jimmy_row wrote:
|
thanks... I'll see what I can do...
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 24 2008 at 09:37 |
oooohhhh.. reading with pleasure...
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |