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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2008 at 20:05
^ I agree with both of you.
 
However, in an 'industry' based upon 'performance' that is a Catch-22 situation - playing live is still a necessary means of self-promotion that is just as important as Internet-networking in creating a fan-base. I admit that times are changing, but at the moment the number of bands and artists who have any measure of success without creating a live following first are minuscule.
 
 
 
 
What?
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Points: 61 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2008 at 19:25
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:


Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:


Originally posted by PetrucciPal PetrucciPal wrote:

I totally agree with you, man. I hate the fact that people miss concerts just because they're not famous enough or they're too freakin' lazy to get up off o' their asses and get to a damn concert. lol
 

Rock on ^_^
Seconded
Do you mean that they're not famous enough or that the concert-goer doesn't have enough interest in the speciific act to want to spend their money on them ?It is not the public's duty, nor responsibility , to attend concerts just to "support" a band or music scene. The musician is not owed anything. The serious musician should be ready to work to find & build his fan base, i.e. earn it. If none can be found, it may be a realistic opinion on the quality of the music. Emphasis on the may be.


Well, I know that it's really not our responsibility to go, but I mean, part of the reason why people don't usually go is because the band isn't Rush or Yes or anything; they know that it's just another band that's starting out, so they automatically think that they suck. Or at least, a lot of people that I know do. lol
For the <3 of John Petrucci!
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Points: 157 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2008 at 10:32
Ticket prices might also play into the decision of seeing a band or not. And I agree with debrewguy, that it is the responsibility of the artist to garner/earn support, not the other way around.
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has

been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.

- Terry Pratchett
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2008 at 09:56
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by PetrucciPal PetrucciPal wrote:

I totally agree with you, man. I hate the fact that people miss concerts just because they're not famous enough or they're too freakin' lazy to get up off o' their asses and get to a damn concert. lol
 
Rock on ^_^


Seconded

Do you mean that they're not famous enough or that the concert-goer doesn't have enough interest in the speciific act to want to spend their money on them ?
It is not the public's duty, nor responsibility , to attend concerts just to "support" a band or music scene. The musician is not owed anything. The serious musician should be ready to work to find & build his fan base, i.e. earn it. If none can be found, it may be a realistic opinion on the quality of the music. Emphasis on the may be.


 may be is the key expression here
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Points: 3596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2008 at 17:54
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by PetrucciPal PetrucciPal wrote:

I totally agree with you, man. I hate the fact that people miss concerts just because they're not famous enough or they're too freakin' lazy to get up off o' their asses and get to a damn concert. lol
 
Rock on ^_^


Seconded

Do you mean that they're not famous enough or that the concert-goer doesn't have enough interest in the speciific act to want to spend their money on them ?
It is not the public's duty, nor responsibility , to attend concerts just to "support" a band or music scene. The musician is not owed anything. The serious musician should be ready to work to find & build his fan base, i.e. earn it. If none can be found, it may be a realistic opinion on the quality of the music. Emphasis on the may be.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2008 at 13:40
Originally posted by PetrucciPal PetrucciPal wrote:

I totally agree with you, man. I hate the fact that people miss concerts just because they're not famous enough or they're too freakin' lazy to get up off o' their asses and get to a damn concert. lol
 
Rock on ^_^


Seconded
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Points: 61 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2008 at 10:48
I totally agree with you, man. I hate the fact that people miss concerts just because they're not famous enough or they're too freakin' lazy to get up off o' their asses and get to a damn concert. lol
 
Rock on ^_^
For the <3 of John Petrucci!
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 18:38
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Quote Ouch Ouch, i didn't meat that!


Meat indeed,  a good steak is exactly what you need with a black eye like that. Wink

Carry on... and make prog become undead alive again.


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I Meant to write "meant". But what the hell, i was a good joke. Cheers to you my friend. Approve Cool Clap
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Angelo View Drop Down
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 18:29
Quote Ouch Ouch, i didn't meat that!


Meat indeed,  a good steak is exactly what you need with a black eye like that. Wink

Carry on... and make prog become undead alive again.
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 18:19
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

If that's the case - the discussion ends and the thread dies or goes dormant. In the latter case, it will be a lot easier to revive the discussion when new insights arrive if you don't start dicussing other issues (i.e. go off topic) in such thread. If all that's said has been said, there's new threads for new topics. As Dean pointed out - a thread is not a chat room.


Ouch Ouch, i didn't meat that! Just that a subject have to be looked from its different angels and not from only one. We are trying to have a different perspective on the matter, and not change the subject. However, detours eventually appear and, because of that, it is important that the exquisite admin team of prog archives keep us always on the track Wink
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 18:12
If that's the case - the discussion ends and the thread dies or goes dormant. In the latter case, it will be a lot easier to revive the discussion when new insights arrive if you don't start dicussing other issues (i.e. go off topic) in such thread. If all that's said has been said, there's new threads for new topics. As Dean pointed out - a thread is not a chat room.
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 16:42
besides, if we stay forever discussing about the same thing it would be like running in circles. We gotta change the point of view, at least, to the thread still be "new"


Edited by CCVP - March 25 2008 at 16:43
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 16:41
168 threads later the point of view changed, but the subject is still the same man Wink
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Angelo View Drop Down
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 16:36
In a way your right, but you are about 5 steps ahead of the current reality Dean started with.....
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 16:12
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Ahem.... read my lips: stay on topic....


well, isn't the lack of exposure one of the things killing prog?
we are only discussing how much exposure we want Big%20smile
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Angelo View Drop Down
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 16:09
Ahem.... read my lips: stay on topic....
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 15:51
Originally posted by khammer99 khammer99 wrote:

Originally posted by Les_Lifeson Les_Lifeson wrote:

This will achieve fantastic results, imo. Not only will it open the bands up to radio play - it will in turn open the bands up to videos - and we all know how videos can be used as a great media tool to promote albums and songs.
I am not saying - sell out. Don't read that in my post. I am saying sell smart.
Wouldn't it be nice to hear that your favourite prog band was being nominated for something? Sure, sure - grammy's, shammy's - I know what you are thinking. But it would be nice, to turn it on and hear Dream Theater's name, or Spock's Beard, or The Flower Kings, etc, etc, etc. I would love to be able to say to them - yeah, that's my kinda music!


 Why is it so important to have a band shoot videos or win awards? Who are you going to say "that's my kind of music" too? The bands themselves? 
 It just sounds to me, that you need your music accepted so you'll be accepted? I don't  know. Wither a band I like is popular or not, is irrelevant to me, and maybe to you too, but it doesn't come across like that from your message.


Agreed brother!
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 15:50
Originally posted by Les_Lifeson Les_Lifeson wrote:

My intention was never to inflame or cause an argument to break out amongst the other board members. My intention was merely to draw comparisons to why you think that Prog-rock is dying. Like all diseases that kill, they have an origin in something.

So, we will move on. As many of you will eventually come to understand, I am very opinionated - but I love my prog. Provided it's got the thing that makes good music good - the x factor - to coin a phrase.

So much stuff is coming out these days - which is why I don't think prog is dead. Take a look at insidemusic - SPV - the label that puts out alot of the stuff we listen to - their catalogue is chock-a-block full of prog. That's not all they publish - but one could easily get that impression due to the large number of bands under their roof.

I am sick to death of ridiculous lyrics, and 25 minute songs. I love a good epic, but come on! More often than not it's just an excuse to "prattle on" lyrically and musically. Sure these guys can play - but do we really need to hear them playing their "virtuoso" phrases, mixes, and and who knows what else for far too long? Back in the day, when Genesis and Kansas, Styx etc were writing songs - sure they wrote long songs - but they always sounded like songs! I don't need to hear how good Mike Portnoy is on the drums if it takes away from the song. I don't need to hear John Petrucci solo over and over again as if I didn't know how good he was.

Rush once fell into that trap - and they are imho one of the best bands out there - ever - to wear the moniker - prog rock. They wrote some amazing songs - some were 20 mins and more, but Rush evolved. Probably my favourite band of all time, they learned to write songs. Sure, many people would argue that many of the songs that they wrote after Moving Pictures were less and less prog rock - perhaps. But they learned to write songs that were able to turn an idea into something real, something you could understand, something you might relate to - and do it all, without compromising any of their genius, inside 5 minutes - or less. To me that is real musicianship. Being able to paint a canvas with less colors and still having it turn out to be fantastic.
 
This is where I feel alot of modern prog has failed. It rarely learned how to say alot with the whole "less is more" philosophy.
Now don't get me wrong - I love prog - I love it to bits - I just am sick of hearing the same stuff coming from alot of these bands over and over again.
Not to pick on Dream Theater - but their latest album Systematic Chaos is a mess. I think they started to lose the plot after SFAM. That was a fantastic album in of itself - and one of my favourite cds. It just works.
 
I think the point I am trying to make is that we need to hear more songs withing the songs we are hearing - if that makes sense. Noodling around and playing for the sake of playing is so old. Time to move on. Write songs, condense the thoughts into less words and modes and concentrate your talents.
 
This will achieve fantastic results, imo. Not only will it open the bands up to radio play - it will in turn open the bands up to videos - and we all know how videos can be used as a great media tool to promote albums and songs.
I am not saying - sell out. Don't read that in my post. I am saying sell smart.
Wouldn't it be nice to hear that your favourite prog band was being nominated for something? Sure, sure - grammy's, shammy's - I know what you are thinking. But it would be nice, to turn it on and hear Dream Theater's name, or Spock's Beard, or The Flower Kings, etc, etc, etc. I would love to be able to say to them - yeah, that's my kinda music!


Don't know if i want to see prog on Grammy or any of those awards that are literally bought by the artists. Hell, there are more awards for R&B, rap, hip hop, etc than for rock, metal and other kinds of music. What sell more is what command which kind of award exists.

Moving on, i also think that some artists are indeed more interested on masturbatory craziness than on playing music (just see Yngwie Malmsteen for that), that Dream Theater last album is a shame (however i think that Octavarium was definitely a step forward after train of thought) and some artists keep making an increasingly amount of prog rock that made the punk come to existence back in the 70's (the kind of bloated and safe prog), when prog WAS mainstream.

Changing the subject drastically, i don't think that Rush was a progressive rock band, i just think that they made GREAT music in the 70's and that music had a LOT of prog influences, but it was still hard rock; just like Jethro Tull is not a progressive rock band, they just made complex music during the 70's that late on was labeled as pro rock (and thats is not me saying it, the god IAN ANDERSON himself said it, so, i guess, he knows about his works better than me Big%20smile).
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khammer99 View Drop Down
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Points: 157 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 15:36
Originally posted by Les_Lifeson Les_Lifeson wrote:

This will achieve fantastic results, imo. Not only will it open the bands up to radio play - it will in turn open the bands up to videos - and we all know how videos can be used as a great media tool to promote albums and songs.
I am not saying - sell out. Don't read that in my post. I am saying sell smart.
Wouldn't it be nice to hear that your favourite prog band was being nominated for something? Sure, sure - grammy's, shammy's - I know what you are thinking. But it would be nice, to turn it on and hear Dream Theater's name, or Spock's Beard, or The Flower Kings, etc, etc, etc. I would love to be able to say to them - yeah, that's my kinda music!


 Why is it so important to have a band shoot videos or win awards? Who are you going to say "that's my kind of music" too? The bands themselves? 
 It just sounds to me, that you need your music accepted so you'll be accepted? I don't  know. Wither a band I like is popular or not, is irrelevant to me, and maybe to you too, but it doesn't come across like that from your message.
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has

been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.

- Terry Pratchett
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 15:26
Originally posted by Les_Lifeson Les_Lifeson wrote:

I know what you are thinking -
 
Didn't you say up above that you never wanted the music we love - Prog - to be considered mainstream. I still stand by that!
I never want to find that it is and has succumbed to all the trappings that the music industry has to offer.
That would be a bad thing in more ways than I can think of - and believe me - I can think of alot.
But getting recognized is a far cry from being mainstream. Pehaps one leads to the other - I think that could be argued. But at the same time, if doesn't have to.
Recognition purely opens a band up to a wider audience. What the band does with that fame is up to them. If they turn into poseurs - well then - that's what they want. But it's not what I want. And I daresay if that were to happen to one of our prog rock gems that we love - the message would be loud and clear. They wouldn't do it for long.
 


Question don't got what you meant here. Prog was mainstream on the 70's. It just passed, just like any fashion to the mainstream media. However, unlike other fashions like grunge prog managed to survive and may never be mainstream again, just like disco, classical music, etc
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