Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Blogs
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Crimson Commentaries 1991-98
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedCrimson Commentaries 1991-98

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
Lonely Progger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 07 2007
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 100
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2007 at 13:14

The Aims Of The DGM Collectors' Club.
____________________________________

I

The aims of the Club are these:
1. To facilitate the entry of (primarily DGM family) music into the world: past, present and
future.
2. To attract the music's most likely audience.
3. To bring the music and audience together.
The music is in three main areas:
i) Works in progress; for example, current live performance.
ii) Archive recordings.
iii) Snapshots of process, musical and non-musical;
e.g. rehearsals and interviews.

We have an extensive recorded archive from over 30 years of various KC / Fripp projects,
mainly live shows. The quality of our archive recording has improved hugely following the advent of
easily-available digital technology. When I return from tour nowadays it is with a series of DAT tapes
from the mixing desk and, frequently, a series of multi-track ADATs.
So, current works in progress are of good quality. Although board mixes reflect the front-ofhouse
sound and are not necessarily "balanced" mixes, the unexpected joys of eruptile instruments
and broad-stroke sonics often match the pleasure of reflective, considered performance. The asperity
of the grain holds its own delights.

II
The first release and Club Selection is set for October 1998. DGM Collectors' Club No. 1 is
King Crimson live in 1969 at the Marquee Club, London. The second Club Selection, for December
1998, is the second KC live line-up of Mel, Boz & Ian, in Jacksonville. The third is of the KC debut
performance with Jamie Muir at the Beat Club tv show, Bremen, in 1972.
We are planning initially for six bi-monthly Club Selections a year, with the possibility of
additional optional selections.
The Club Selections will be mailed automatically to members, unless they tell us otherwise.
Optional releases will only be mailed to members if ordered directly.

III
The ruling principles are simplicity and fairness, assuming goodwill between Club and
members. If any potential Club member fears that a greedy record company and its venal leader
intend to snaffle their hard-earned pay by supplying large quantities of sonic turkeys (just like
bootleggers, that is) or multiple releases of the same group, better not to join the Club.
Club releases are supplied to members on the understanding that the records will not be
duplicated.
For European enrollment please write to:


DGM Collectors' Club,
PO Box 1718,
SALISBURY,
Wiltshire, SP5 5SW;
fax: (44) 1722 781042.
For US and Rest of the World please write to:
DGM Collectors' Club,
PO Box 5282,
Dept. CC,
BEVERLY HILLS,
CA 90209;
fax: (1) 323 937 9102.

Lost in the south of france:
" Le rock progressif ? C'est quoi cette connerie? "
Back to Top
Lonely Progger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 07 2007
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 100
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2007 at 13:15

Background To The Club.
______________________

I

As background to all other enthusiast discussion / commentary regarding DGM: please know
that it is hard to exagerrate the difficulties which a small company like ours has to merely exist. That
we are here is in itself a triumph.
Various postings to DGM and the Elephant Talk site wonder why various anticipated projects
have not yet been finalised, or released. Why have they not received a reply to their urgent request
for detailed advice on how to launch their career in the record industry, or a critique of their
unsolicited CD?
The answer to these queries is simple; for me, painfully simple. This simple answer has three
parts: time, money and necessity.
There are three primary constructs of my professional life which, although in all cases
involving the energies and contributions of others, nevertheless have been prime and determining in
my own life. These constructs are King Crimson, Guitar Craft and Discipline Global Mobile.
Throughout the period 1969 - 1984, whenever Crimson was active my involvement was total.
Since 1984 I have not been a "public figure", a role I had formerly considered to be an important part
of my necessary work and personal practice. The next seven year period, 1984-91, was dedicated to
Guitar Craft. The period 1991-98 has been one of radical reconstruction, including almost seven
years of dispute between my former managers and two of the largest music groups in the world; the
creation of DGM; the reincarnation of King Crimson; and the continuing life of Guitar Craft.
So, whereas formerly my responsibility was to one main construct, currently all three feed
upon me and exert their own ongoing demands.
Conventionally, independent companies are underfinanced. We honour this convention.
Commonly, when an independent company is successful its owner sells out to a major. The major
then uses the apparently-independent label as a front, luring young artists into mainstream control
with its attendant common trading practices. Commonly, the former owner has by now become
independently wealthy.
An historic problem for independent labels is that their independent distributor (the
organisation which puts records into shops) goes bankrupt. This causes appalling knock-on problems
and difficulties for the smaller people and artists associated with the distributor. This befell DGM in
the US in October 1997 when Alliance defaulted, by our calculation, on approximately $459,000
outstanding to DGM.
A record company's value is its ownership of recording copyrights. DGM refuses to own the
copyrights of its artists which, regardless of its status as a "common practice", I regard as a criminal
act. Therefore DGM has nothing to sell. In this sense, DGM can never be sold.


II

Discipline is seeking an informed and engaged audience for our artists and music.
I conceptualise the music industry as working on three levels (which also have three internal
divisions):
1. First division: access directly to the mainstream. This means, in DGM terms, that our
releases are stocked and available in shops.
This is the world of popular and mass cultures. Popular culture is where our poets, authors
and singers call on the highest part in all of us, where we are the same person.
Mass culture is where our artists tell us what we want to hear, for money. This is a domain of
consensual deceit, is enormously seductive and immensely powerful.
2. Second division: this provides indirect access to the mainstream, via a public which
has its eyes and ears open. This constituency is addressed DGM mail order.
It is the world of the professional, rather than the popular, artist; of the enthusiast rather than
the fan. Enthusiast appraisal is personal, but informed. The fan's view is governed by like and dislike,
by attraction and aversion. The fan's assessment is subjective.
3. Third division: access to a specialised and informed audience. This is the likely world
of the connoisseur, where the artist relies upon the critical judgement of an expert audience. For the
artist, this is the domain of musical R&D. Performances will be mostly in small spaces and venues,
with record sales to match.
The specialised nature of third division music, artist and audience place all three outside the
mainstream. The small sales of CDs in this division may not even justify release on a general mail
order catalogue.
This is the operating niche for the DGM Collectors’ Club.

Lost in the south of france:
" Le rock progressif ? C'est quoi cette connerie? "
Back to Top
Dennis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 09 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 241
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2007 at 13:17
Forgive me, but I wish Robert Fripp would spend more time making music than running his mouth. He is obviously very full of himself, and not at all humble. IMHO he seems to loathe and hate the genre (progressive rock), that he helped create. The 1969 Crimson and all of the others that followed ALL fit into the "Prog" mode. I recently did a poll on this site about which guitarist has influenced the genre the most, and Mr. Fripp won hands down. I admire him so much for his unique guitar style, a style I have always loved, but I have always been at odds with his personality. I guess blatant honesty is good, but that honesty can also alienate you from the public and the people who have acknowledged  you as a legend, and a person of international acclaim. Sorry, but to me Robert Fripp just comes off as a nasty Englishman who doesn't appreciate his loyal following. A man who constantly looks down his nose  and snubs his fans. The less words I read from Mr. Fripp the better. The more music I hear from Mr. Fripp the better. He is obviously a brilliant guitarist and innovator, but I just wish that most of the time he would keep his thoughts to himself. Come on now, where's the next Crimson? We all want to give you more money Bob! "
"Day dawns dark, it now numbers infinity"
Back to Top
Lonely Progger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 07 2007
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 100
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2007 at 13:44

III


The public in each of the divisions has its own expectations and demands. My expectation as
record buyer for a DGM (or any) record bought from a Virgin Megastore, in sonics and packaging, is
"professional" at least. Also for mail order. In a bootleg outlet, whether under the counter or through
discreet mail order, I anticipate amateur art and sonics (unless the bootleg comes recently from
Japan).
Many of DGM's natural audience, as reflected in the Elephant Talk internet newsletter, my
large personal correspondence over many years, and letters to DGM, belong naturally to the third
division.
Please note ongoing comments on bootlegging, and recent postings about recordings of
ProjeKct One & Two shows. There is not much complaint about the dismal sound quality and feeble
artwork. If DGM released two CDs from Ronnie Scott's in Birmingham at the quality of the currently
available wretched volumes, we would be deluged with complaints.
Why this radical disparity in expectations?
We reasonably expect from a professional record company records of "professional" quality.
Here the irony and the paradox: if DGM is unable to meet "professional" standards with its releases, it
can't release them. So, we can't compete with bootleggers. This has the effect of limiting our
catalogue to records where we are able to meet our own high standards (in some cases where we set
the industry standard).
In the DGM archive series, "Epitaph" took four months of painstaking sonic editing and
scrapbook assembling. "The Night Watch" is another labour of love, with specially commissioned
artwork from Pam Crook, an established artist. The sleeve and notes, again, are an extended
commitment. "Absent Lovers", also the same. In 1992 "The Great Deceiver" took four months to
prepare. Now this has reverted to DGM from Virgin, and is out of print, we have to choose whether to
reprint in its existing format or to remix / re-present in a Second Edition.
None of this work is economically justifiable by the normative commercial standards and
practices of the record industry.
A new release of a Soundscape album, of less appeal than classic King Crimson, requires
enormous listening and sifting; e.g. assessing 50 performances (as on the G3 tour of North America)
over a two month period. Editing, mastering and commissioning original artwork follows. Although
Soundscapes have not yet found a mainstream audience, some of the new artists joining DGM aren't
even as well known as Soundscapes.
We are able to place our established artists in stores, and provide our becoming-established
artists with reliable mail order distribution. But we have been unable to address the audience which
bootleggers supply, this in two main areas:

1. Speedy releases of current musicking and live performance.

2. Rare items of classic / historic live performance.

This is not because the RF / DGM archives are lacking in material from current or classic
work - shelves groan with four months of Frippertronic reels from 1979 alone, 8-track tapes from
1982 Crimson, every performance by ProjeKct Two and ProjeKct One (and unreleasable goodies,
like Peter Gabriel croaking an early morning demo into a cassette for me to learn a song for his first
album) - but because we have not been prepared to compromise our standards in sound or
packaging.
The effect of this has been to:

1. Distance us from our natural audience: the audience whose primary concern is the
spirit of the music and its performance; secondarily the sonics; and thirdly, its presentation (this is my
sense, based partly on viewing the broad range of commentary and suggestions to DGM).
2. Limit DGM to around 6 - 12 releases a year.
DGM is a definitive example of an ideal third division record company. Our second division is
very good, and our mailing list growing steadily. Our first division is effective and successful for first
division artists, that is, King Crimson.
So, from the third division we address all three divisions.
But right now we have a powerful download of music underway, and available, which we
need to release: this to honour DGM's first declared business aim - to help bring music into the world
which would otherwise be unlikely to do so, or under conditions prejudicial to the music and / or
musicians.
The DGM Collectors’ Club is a proposal to meet this perceived need, but is dependent upon
support from the listening community.
DGM Collectors' Club
PO Box 1718,
SALISBURY,
Wiltshire, SP5 5ER
(44)722 781042: fax
[email protected]
July 21, 1998

Lost in the south of france:
" Le rock progressif ? C'est quoi cette connerie? "
Back to Top
Lonely Progger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 07 2007
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 100
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2007 at 13:49

Q & A.
_____

I

Question: What are the benefits of the Club?
Answer: Music, audience, artists and DGM all benefit.
1. New music has a release shortly after it enters the world; historic music has a latterly
and legal release.
2. The audience has:
i) A fast-track access to music recently entering the world from DGM
artists;
ii) Access to archives / bootlegs / rarities which, if available, are flawed: illegal,
over-priced, with poor sound and without the artists receiving royalties,
iii) Access to recordings which could / would not be released without the support
and enthusiasm of the Collectors' Club.
3. The artists receive royalties which, in the bootleg world, doesn't happen.
4. The company has financing to produce and release the records.

II

Q: Who is the DGM Club most like to appeal to?
A: 1. Serious King Crimson and Crimson-related Collectors, who buy bootlegs and almost
everything related to KC.
2. Any DGM mail order customer who buys at least 6 CDs a year.
3. A serious, but not solemn, music audient whose ears are open and available to
nourishment from a wide range of musics.
4. Intense and earnest young men (probably with facial hair and certainly with
spectacles) keenly tracing the history of very serious rock music, often without the
support of their wives or partners.

III

Q. How will the Club work in detail?
A. The details of the Club's operations will unfold as the Club develops.
The ruling principles are simplicity and fairness, assuming goodwill between Club and
members.
We welcome informed appraisal, critical commentary and impartial scepticism, subject to the
operations of courtesy and the assumption of goodwill.
If any potential Club member is concerned that a greedy record company and its venal
leader are intent upon snaffling their hard-earned pay by supplying them large quantities of sonic
turkeys (just like bootleggers, that is) better not to join the Club. If any potential Club member is likely
to be resentful, critical or nasty about multiple releases of the same group, or their material, better
not to join the Club.
The Club is not intended as a vehicle to focus the personal negativity or cynicism of any
record buying audient who wishes to discharge and download their animosity onto others. There are
vehicles for this, and the Club is not one of them. If, as you read this, you find yourself reacting,
please give your business to others.
To bona fide audients: I note that even supportive audients don't hold bootleggers
responsible to the same criteria as DGM: for example in pricing, the quality of sound and artworks; or
the repetition of the same recordings under different CD titles.
Please note: Club releases are supplied to members on the understanding that these records
will not be duplicated.

IV

Q. Then how will the Club work in outline?
A. 1. The Club will formally begin on August 1st. 1998.
This follows by one month the incorporation of DGM as a stand-alone UK company
independent of Possible Productions, the company which handles Robert Fripp's activities as a
professional musician. Possible provided DGM with its initial framework and protective umbrella
when entering the world. DGM has now grown up sufficiently to leave home, and is continuing to
develop alongside Possible Productions.
2. The first Club Selection is set for release on October 1st. 1998.
DGM Collectors' Club No. 1: October 1998:
King Crimson live at the Marquee Club, London, in 1969.
DGM Collectors' Club No. 2: December 1998:
King Crimson live in Jacksonville 1972
(from the "Earthbound" tour).
DGM Collectors' Club No. 3: February 1999:
King Crimson at the Bremen Beat Club 1972
(KC with Jamie Muir)
We are planning initially for six bi-monthly Club Selections a year, with the probability of
additional optional selections.
The Club Selections will mailed automatically to members, unless they tell us otherwise. The
optional releases will only be mailed to members if ordered specifically. The questionnaire below
asks your opinions on releases which interest you particularly, and the mechanics of running the
Club.

V

Q. Will Club records be available on general release?
A. Normally, Club releases will only be available in that format through the Club to Club
Members.
The initial Club releases will be focused on CDs of more interest to a specialised DGM
audient. This will include material which would not be included for a shop release, where mainstream
punter expectations are very different.
Some DGM artists may sell their Club releases at shows (for example, Robert selling
Frippertronic obscurities; The CGT selling live shows). A ProjeKct One / Two / Four show released
shortly after a tour, and recognised by Club members as classic, may go into general mail order or
shop release at a later date, although probably in an edited or altered format.
One possibility is for the Club to release multiple shows from (for example) the ProjeKct Two
tour of the mid-West: audients from Chicago might like to get the show from Chicago, and audients
from Cleveland might prefer to get the Cleveland show. Serious ProjeKctiles will buy the series and
compare the development of the band over a period of time. Other members will lament the
obsessive characteristics of these ProjeKct Two enthusiasts and diligently seek all recorded
examples of "Starless" (NB the Club may release the earliest writing rehearsals of "Starless").
Substantial feedback that any particular show is worth making available to the wider listening
community will be considered.
General catalogue shop / mail-order audients tend to prefer a representative single volume,
rather than a wide selection. Record shops and DGM's national distributors are more interested in the
money-shot than a life history.
But the quick answer is, we anticipate that Club releases will only be obtainable by Club
members from the Club.

VI

Q. What will the sound quality of Club releases be like?
A. From very good to very bad, depending on the particular title / recording involved.
Information on releases will be available, so members know what they are buying.
VII

Q. How much is it to join?
A. £78 for European members and $96 for American. This is not a membership fee. It is a
deposit from which the member buys DGM records, both from the Club and the general catalogue.
This is calculated at:
CD x 6 @ £13 = £78;
CD x 6 @ US $16 = $96.

VIII

Q. Do I have to spend my £78 / $96 within a year?
A. No.
The membership fee is calculated on the cost of 6 CDs. Most of our mail order customers
spend that amount in a year. But your account is in balance until you buy 6 releases, Club or
otherwise, whether within one year or not.

IX

Q. Who decides what is released?
A. Robert and the team at DGM, taking on board feedback and suggestions from letters to DGM
and our Website, audients at shows, and ET correspondents.

X

Q. Can Club members use their deposit to buy from the general DGM mail order catalogue?
A. Yes, as mentioned above. However, orders from the general catalogue will need to made
separately from Club orders. This is to simplify the practicalities of running the Club.
The financial database and member balances are common to both general and Club
catalogues, but the mailing and organisational process is different. So, to make the operation simpler
there are two different mailing addresses for orders. The Collectors’ Club will be run from its own
separate mailing address.

XI

Q. Will Club releases remain available if I join the Club later, or will they be deleted?
A. Subject to pressing runs, they will remain available in the Club catalogue

Lost in the south of france:
" Le rock progressif ? C'est quoi cette connerie? "
Back to Top
Lonely Progger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 07 2007
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 100
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2007 at 13:53

The End.

So what are your opinions on this organisation ?



Edited by Lonely Progger - November 06 2007 at 13:53
Lost in the south of france:
" Le rock progressif ? C'est quoi cette connerie? "
Back to Top
andu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2007 at 13:54
I'll read it somewhen... But at first sight, it reminds me of the foundation document of yhe Holy Mount Athos! LOL

Edited by andu - November 06 2007 at 13:55
Back to Top
Peter View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2007 at 21:04
Interesting reading, LP -- thanks. Smile
 
I have no problem with what Fripp writes. I don't know why some get so mad, if he  questions the utility and aptness of the "progressive" tag and other negative aspects of the music/movement. Surely his opinions are at least worth considering, and were arrived at from a position of very direct & thorough experience.
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.191 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.