Political discussion thread

Ghost Rider wrote: JJLehto wrote:     And I disagree with the idea of allowing students to carry arms on campus. I have never been able to get concrete answers, so maybe someone here can help me. IS crime less in Europe and countries with very strict gun control??? Of course it is. Here in Italy, many crimes in the family occur when there is a weapon in the house - it happened last month when a man, suffering from severe depression, shot his daughter dead because she told him he smoked too much. If he hadn't had a revolver in his house, the girl may still be alive. Our societies are not free from violence, far from it - but the fact that no one can waltz into a shop and buy a gun surely keeps outbursts of violence under control.

That's an unfortunate story, but it doesn't answer the question. 

I would also like to note that states in the US that have ratified right-to-carry laws have seen a slight statistical DROP in crime.  There is no evidence that the number of guns and the number of gun crimes is correlated.  Guns will never be totally eliminated, and regardless of gun laws, the nutcases who want to shoot places up will probably get their hands on firearms if they are determined to, just like determined addicts get heroin or crack cocaine.  There is no reason that non-violent citizens shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves or enjoy safely firing their weapons at a local range. 


Edited by rileydog22 - November 01 2007 at 19:41

I think we should hand out guns to kids like it's candy.

Oh wait, we've already been doing that. My bad.

Well, personally I support gun control. It will help, of course won't eliminate the problem at all.
However, I feel all you need is a handgun and a rifle. Why do you need a gun today? Hunting, survival...  You don't NEED automatic weapons.

The problem really all is the 2nd amendment. It is archaic and outdated. Today we don't NEED guns for survival, there are no threats of rebellion. I know one guy that actually said "well what if we were INVADED"   America invaded?
I don't see the need to have a gun at all, but I guess you can have a handgun or rifle since theres no way to just ban them.

Which proves my point: take away guns and people just get stabbed/choked/beaten to death.  The overall murder rate remains the same.  

rileydog22 wrote: Which proves my point: take away guns and people just get stabbed/choked/beaten to death.  The overall murder rate remains the same.

Speaking of guns and crime, the Greek government has recently issued a law that the police can videotape mass demonstrations in order to find out any criminals taking part in the events.
A common thing in Greece, every time we have a major demonstration, several masked people destroy everything in their sight.
Although it seems as a reasonable law, it may breach human rights and the High Court in Greece is discussing of its implementation
much skepticism about this decision, any thoughts?

^ I agree - if you are doing nothing wrong then you've nothing to hide. I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't been videotaping in secret for years anyway.

rileydog22 wrote: A decrease in shooting deaths would merely correlate with an increase in deaths by stabbing, suffocation, beating, etc..  Changing the weapon does not prevent the crime.  If we want to stop violence, we need to stop VIOLENCE, not violence that happens to be committed by someone holding a gun.  Simply going after guns is a rather pathetic way to try and prevent violence.

I've always said...the best way to put out a fire is to throw gasoline on it

schizoid_man77 wrote: rileydog22 wrote: Which proves my point: take away guns and people just get stabbed/choked/beaten to death.  The overall murder rate remains the same.     No, when you take away guns, the government is free to take you over without much of a fight.   Hence communism was so big!

Perhaps you should get your facts straight and avoid sweeping statements of that kind. Communism was big for a series of reasons which have nothing to do with the people having guns or not. History and politics are much more complicated than that, I'm afraid.

I can only tell you one thing: here in Europe, though I wouldn't say I feel 100% safe when walking in the streets, I am quite sure no one will shoot me at a whim when I am going about my daily business. When, hopefully soon, I move to the US, it may become much more of a concern for me. That said, if tragedies such as Columbine or VA Tech haven't been enough to convince you of the dangers of not having any control on firearm ownership, I'm afraid nothing will, and such events will continue and escalate.