Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closed"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
The Whistler View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
    Posted: September 27 2007 at 03:17
Ah yes, another in my series of "topics with bad titles that no one will look at, save out of curiosity, and then only in a kind of, 'look at the freak show' kind of way."
 
So, I just got this Shine On Bartly album...finally...and it's pretty sweet. Maybe not as sweet as the debut, but sweet nevertheless. "Skip Softly (My Moonbeans)" is just CRAZY. Am I sensing a Strange Days influence with all the carnival references?
 
Anyway, so what's up with this "In Held Twas I" thing? It's not just a proto-progressive suite, it IS a progressive suite. It's got multiple movements, spooky conceptuality, nicely used sound effects...it's like a minature Wall, eleven years too soon. So why isn't it remembered fondly, around the fireplace, in smoking jackets and with wine whilst gazing at the hunting trophies? NO, instead, we recall that whole Days o' Future Pissed, which is WAY less proggy than this.
 
And what was the reaction to the record at the time? I wasn't there, you have to understand. On holiday.
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
Back to Top
bhikkhu View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 03:50
Transatlantic did a pretty nice cover of it too.
Back to Top
jammun View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:50
What a great album this was and is, with In Held Twas In I being the obvious high point.
 
Unfortunately for Procol, their catalog has been in disarray forever, and the product can be spotty.  Missing songs.  Sub-optimal sound.  Someone (Rhino, are you listening?) needs to purchase the catalog, at least the Trower years, and give them a proper remastering.  Then I for one would buy the whole lot.
 
But of course given that the original band members are, 40 years later, still suing each other over composer credits, probably does not help.
Back to Top
The Whistler View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2007 at 02:18
Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

Transatlantic did a pretty nice cover of it too.
 
Wait, who is Transatlantic, and what did they do a cover of?
 
And Jammun, I totally agree; there's, like, eighty "remasters" of all the classic albums, each one a different import. My Shine On has three bonuses, two of which are also bonuses on my Procol Harum, and it's Germany. Ja.
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2007 at 02:27
 ^ Mike Portnoy (Dream theater), Ronnie Stolt (Flower Kings), Neal Morse (Spock's Beard), Pete Trewavas (Marillion)








Edited by Atavachron - September 28 2007 at 02:28
Back to Top
The Whistler View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2007 at 02:35
Oh. Cool. Progressive supergroup. And they covered...what exactly, the album? The title tune? "In Held?" I'd do the title tune. It's awesome.
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
Back to Top
bhikkhu View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2007 at 09:39
They covered "In Held 'Twas I" on their debut. I highly recommend getting both of their albums.
Back to Top
The Whistler View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2007 at 02:27
Only "both?" That's sad...oh well, I like the Procolers, and I like doomed bands (Family, Carmen...). I'll keep 'em in mind.
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
Back to Top
MonkeyphoneAlex View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 27 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 234
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2007 at 08:14
Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

Transatlantic did a pretty nice cover of it too.
 
Indeed they did.  I prefer the original, though.  But isn't that always the way it is?
"Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST."
-FZ
Back to Top
MonkeyphoneAlex View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 27 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 234
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2007 at 08:16
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

 ^ Mike Portnoy (Dream theater), Ronnie Stolt (Flower Kings), Neal Morse (Spock's Beard), Pete Trewavas (Marillion)






 
Roine Stolt, actually.  Sorry if I'm being a prick about it.
"Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST."
-FZ
Back to Top
salmacis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

Content Addition

Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2007 at 10:32
PH's early material has been endlessly recycled to the point that one can be easily blase about it due to the mishandling (compared to, say, Genesis who have not been burdened with endless compilations, really), but listening to their debut they were ahead of their time. 'A Whiter Shade Of Pale' is the most obvious example of their classical/rock crossover, but 'She Wandered Through The Garden Fence' and the doomy instrumental 'Repent Walpurgis' is in a vaguely similar mode, IMHO. 'In Held 'Twas In I' is their most adventurous piece, and I would argue one of the most adventurous pieces in rock music up to that point. I certainly feel it had an impact on Genesis' 'Supper's Ready', to name but one.
 
I think the band's classical/rock fusions were more subtle than The Moody Blues' were. I think Procol Harum's music has generally stood the test of time better; there are moments of pure hilarity on The Moody Blues albums to be had nowadays (mainly the 'poetry'; even though on Procol Harum's 'In Held 'Twas In I' there is a narrated section, I think it's much more tongue-in-cheek than The Moody Blues' ones), and I find the string arrangements on 'Days Of Future Passed' to be a bit tedious, plus there is very little actual integration between the band and the orchestra. This unfortunate 'band plays a bit, orchestra plays a bit' trait was used as the template for Deep Purple's similarly non-cohesive 'Concerto For Group And Orchestra'.
Back to Top
debrewguy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2007 at 18:08
Originally posted by salmacis salmacis wrote:

PH's early material has been endlessly recycled to the point that one can be easily blase about it due to the mishandling (compared to, say, Genesis who have not been burdened with endless compilations, really), but listening to their debut they were ahead of their time. 'A Whiter Shade Of Pale' is the most obvious example of their classical/rock crossover, but 'She Wandered Through The Garden Fence' and the doomy instrumental 'Repent Walpurgis' is in a vaguely similar mode, IMHO. 'In Held 'Twas In I' is their most adventurous piece, and I would argue one of the most adventurous pieces in rock music up to that point. I certainly feel it had an impact on Genesis' 'Supper's Ready', to name but one.
 
I think the band's classical/rock fusions were more subtle than The Moody Blues' were. I think Procol Harum's music has generally stood the test of time better; there are moments of pure hilarity on The Moody Blues albums to be had nowadays (mainly the 'poetry'; even though on Procol Harum's 'In Held 'Twas In I' there is a narrated section, I think it's much more tongue-in-cheek than The Moody Blues' ones), and I find the string arrangements on 'Days Of Future Passed' to be a bit tedious, plus there is very little actual integration between the band and the orchestra. This unfortunate 'band plays a bit, orchestra plays a bit' trait was used as the template for Deep Purple's similarly non-cohesive 'Concerto For Group And Orchestra'.

Didn't Procol Harum put out a live album with the Edmonton Philharmonic Orchestra ? If I remember some reviews, it's seen as one of the few successful attempts at melding the rock group & classical orchestra.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
Back to Top
jammun View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2007 at 20:46

Yep, they did an album with the orchestra you mention.  The album's version of Conquistador was a minor hit at the time.  I think this album is overlooked (in comparison to Days of Future Passed or the Deep Purple Concerto) because new material is not being presented.  Basically it's the band playing some of their better known songs with an orchestra in tow.  I don't think I've ever seen it on CD, but then again haven't been looking for it.  Edit: checked Amazon and it's available (import). 



Edited by jammun - October 02 2007 at 21:56
Back to Top
soundsweird View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: December 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 408
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2007 at 22:45
I just listened to the "Live" CD today, actually just the track "In Held Twas I", after seeing this thread the other day. The live version is similar to the studio version, but not identical. The live version of "Conquistador", incidentally,  did get a lot of airplay at the time, so I wouldn't characterize it as a "minor hit". As proof, I offer the fact that most karaoke books I've seen list "Whiter Shade" and "Conquistador" by Procol Harum.  The album had great sound quality for its time, and I'd compare it to "Caravan & The New Symphonia" in terms of the blending of rock band and orchestra (and choir).
Back to Top
JayDee View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: September 07 2005
Location: Elysian Fields
Status: Offline
Points: 10063
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2007 at 05:44
Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

They covered "In Held 'Twas I" on their debut. I highly recommend getting both of their albums.
Hell yeah!Clap
 

Back to Top
jammun View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2007 at 22:26
Apparently, life IS INDEED like a beanstalk.  Saw this today:
 
LONDON - The lead singer of British band Procol Harum is appealing a judgment awarding the group's former organist 40 percent of the royalties from their iconic hit "A Whiter Shade of Pale."
 
So the band, or their lawyers, are going to go a few more rounds in court. 
 
Regarding my assertion that Conquistador was a minor hit, I stand corrected.  It apparently reached #16 on the Billboard Top 40.  Being a prog fanatic at the time (meaning I only listened to FM), I plead ignorance, which I realize is no defense.
 
So who's going to start the "You better listen anybody, 'cos it's me and you that's it" thread?
 
 
Back to Top
Easy Money View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2007 at 22:59
I would recommend the original recording of 'In Held Twas in I' over the live one with orchestra, it has a lot more creative production in a late 60s psychedelic kind of way. Also I would get it on vinyl, most old records with lots of analogue effects sound better on vinyl. Just make sure your copy is in good shape. It is a really cool record. That style of late 6os sound cannot be duplicated again.
Back to Top
The Whistler View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2007 at 02:27
Originally posted by salmacis salmacis wrote:

PH's early material has been endlessly recycled to the point that one can be easily blase about it due to the mishandling (compared to, say, Genesis who have not been burdened with endless compilations, really), but listening to their debut they were ahead of their time. 'A Whiter Shade Of Pale' is the most obvious example of their classical/rock crossover, but 'She Wandered Through The Garden Fence' and the doomy instrumental 'Repent Walpurgis' is in a vaguely similar mode, IMHO. 'In Held 'Twas In I' is their most adventurous piece, and I would argue one of the most adventurous pieces in rock music up to that point. I certainly feel it had an impact on Genesis' 'Supper's Ready', to name but one.
 
I think the band's classical/rock fusions were more subtle than The Moody Blues' were. I think Procol Harum's music has generally stood the test of time better; there are moments of pure hilarity on The Moody Blues albums to be had nowadays (mainly the 'poetry'; even though on Procol Harum's 'In Held 'Twas In I' there is a narrated section, I think it's much more tongue-in-cheek than The Moody Blues' ones), and I find the string arrangements on 'Days Of Future Passed' to be a bit tedious, plus there is very little actual integration between the band and the orchestra. This unfortunate 'band plays a bit, orchestra plays a bit' trait was used as the template for Deep Purple's similarly non-cohesive 'Concerto For Group And Orchestra'.
 
Oh yeah. The Procolers were way more inventive, technically inclined and FAR less pretentious than the Moodies...probably because they were tongue in cheek. Amazingly enough, the poetry that opens the "In Held" bit I find to be largely inoffensive, unlike, say, "Senior citizens wish they were young." And Procol Harum invented metal, you know.
 
"Garden Fence" and "Walpurgis" the same? What, you talkin' 'bout the drum intro? They're identical really. But other than that...
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
Back to Top
salmacis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

Content Addition

Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2007 at 10:38
^I meant that both 'Garden Fence' and 'Walpurgis' have a sort of classical feel about them that 'Whiter Shade Of Pale' did; 'Garden Fence' with its organ refrain and the organ/piano work on 'Repent Walpurgis'. Whether or not they borrow from any classical works as 'A Whiter Shade Of Pale' definitely did, I've no idea though.
Back to Top
The Whistler View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 03:49
Yeah, they have VERY similar drum intros. "Walpurgis" has a somewhat Bach-ian feel about it...and I believe that, speaking of Bach, "Whiter Shade" was a take on "Air on a G String."
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.158 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.