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robg View Drop Down
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Points: 4 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 70s prog on vinyl
    Posted: August 17 2007 at 05:17
I expect this has been discussed before (I'm new here), but I'm interested in people's views on the old vinyl vs. CD debate.
 
I've always loved vinyl anyway, but recently I've come to the conclusion that original vinyl albums are the ONLY way to hear 70s prog as it was always meant to be heard.
 
I had quite a collection of remastered CDs, but I find them unlistenable now when compared to the warmth and dynamics of 70s vinyl pressings.  A case in point was Caravan's In the Land of Grey and Pink.  I loved the recent CD version, and thought it was a pretty good sounding remaster (although at that stage I'd never heard the original).  Then I got the Deram LP from ebay and it was like hearing it for the first time.
 
Don't get me wrong, I think CDs are brilliant, without them I wouldn't have had access to a lot of ridiculously rare but excellent music.  But for me vinyl is the ultimate way to hear an album - on the format that it was originally written, recorded, produced and mastered for.
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Points: 10618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2007 at 05:48
Yeah, I prefer albums. I think CDs sound artificial, plus record album jackets are pieces of art, such as the Lizard gatefold album.
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Points: 61 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2007 at 06:41
Oh vinyl is definitely better. I too had the same experience with Caravan's In the Land of Grey and Pink. Some bands are significantly better on vinyl than on CDs; listening to albums like Abbey Road and Foxtrot on vinyl is a completely different experience than listening to them on CD.
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Points: 117 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2007 at 06:47
I think both are great. But can somebody explain why so many people pay so much for vinyls that were pressed in the 70's. On Ebay I see a lot of these vinyls that has to be on a certain label, and has to be first press or whatever. These vinyls go for twice (sometimes much more) as the price for the other "normal" vinyls. Is it because its a certain feeling, to have vinyls that were pressed in that time, or is it really because they have another sound? I was at my friends house some days ago, he played Moonmadness for us, on a first press vinyl from the 70's. I went home and played mine which is a re-release and I just couldnt understand why there is such a big difference, concerning the value of them.
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Points: 4 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2007 at 07:28
Originally posted by Detric Detric wrote:

I think both are great. But can somebody explain why so many people pay so much for vinyls that were pressed in the 70's. On Ebay I see a lot of these vinyls that has to be on a certain label, and has to be first press or whatever. These vinyls go for twice (sometimes much more) as the price for the other "normal" vinyls. Is it because its a certain feeling, to have vinyls that were pressed in that time, or is it really because they have another sound? I was at my friends house some days ago, he played Moonmadness for us, on a first press vinyl from the 70's. I went home and played mine which is a re-release and I just couldnt understand why there is such a big difference, concerning the value of them.
 
Some reissues aren't as good quality as first pressings.  A good example are the Polydor reissues of King Crimson's albums.  Some of them though are identical to the original.  I think it has more to do with owning the "genuine" original article.  Like collecting first printings of books.  Personally I'm not that fastidious about it (to go back to the Crimson example, I'm perfectly happy with my "palm tree" pressing of ITCOTKC and won't be shelling out the £100 (at least) needed for a "pink label" pressing.)
 
Moonmadness is an interesting example actually cos that's still a pretty easy LP to get hold of and a first pressing would only set you back about £12 - £15.  Worth the investment I reckon.
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Points: 865 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2007 at 09:38
Detric, it's all about collecting value, really.
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Points: 117 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2007 at 12:22

Yeah I think its for different reasons really. Some may claim its because they sound better when they are from that period of time which I dont really believe. The other thing is probably as Robq already said, its a certain feeling when you know these vinyls were already floating around in different houses in the 70's. Its like to get hold of a piece of history or whatever, but the prices on Ebay are pretty laughable at times. If I had the money for it, I would probably go for first press vinyls as well, because I think you get a good feeling when playing them. However, I dont mind buying the re-releases because its just that vinyl "sound" I really dig when listening to an album from that period of time. I doubt they sound that different from each other anyway :)



Edited by Detric - August 17 2007 at 12:23
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Points: 8238 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2007 at 12:46
Funny you should bring this up today.  The first batch of CDs rolled off an assembly line in Germany on August 17, 1982.  Twenty five years to the day.
 
I have found a nice balance between my cherished LPs and my growing collection of CDs.  Both have their advantages and, to my aging ears, it's hard for me to tell all that much difference in the sound.  If I was 21 again I probably would.
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Points: 234 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2007 at 20:48
Vinyl has better quality, but cd's have better sound.....give me vinyl...i grew up with up it and next to my wife, is the most loved thing in my house.

Edited by Hyperborea - August 18 2007 at 20:28
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Points: 1059 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2007 at 14:50

I don't yet own a record player, but own a fair few LPs (I buy them for the artwork). My outlook is that I would rather buy an album in CD format than LP and get to know it, then in the future when i'm rich (yeah...) I will seek out the vinyl versions.
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Points: 12813 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2007 at 18:07
Not many responses to this thread, mainly because I would suggest, similar topics have been commonplace in PA, and maybe for many of us the subject has been exhausted:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_results_posts.asp?SearchID=20070820180419&KW=vinyl
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2007 at 10:57
Regarding sound it varies from album to album in my opinion. Some vinyls sound better than the CD issue of the same album to my ears, and it can also be the other way 'round. It's a personal thing.

Listening-wise, it's the same for me. Some albums I prefer the vinyl version of, some the CD.

It's never black and white, there are millions of shades of grey in between. Don't generalise, and everyone will be happier.
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Points: 8581 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2007 at 12:22
I re-record all of my CD's with pops, hisses, scratches and compress the dynamic range before I convert to MP3 so they all sound more like vinyl. LOL

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Points: 12813 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2007 at 18:07
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

I re-record all of my CD's with pops, hisses, scratches and compress the dynamic range before I convert to MP3 so they all sound more like vinyl. LOL


Forgive me asking, but why? They didn't recorded it like that, they wouldn't have played it live like that.

As written elsewhere, compression is means of fitting more than 15 minutes per side, in the form of a mechanical analogue signal - i.e. the groove on each side of the LP. The sub-30 minute, early  Beach Boys LPs weren't normally compressed since there was little  need. The 12" singles tended to have the best audio range if a tune was about  4 minutes or less - unless compressed for radio broadcast purposes (e.g. for stations with AM  or poor quality FM).
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Points: 103 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2007 at 23:22
Originally posted by robg robg wrote:

I've always loved vinyl anyway, but recently I've come to the conclusion that original vinyl albums are the ONLY way to hear 70s prog as it was always meant to be heard.


I couldn't agree with that anymore.  I never buy Prog albums on CD.  It's ALWAYS the original pressings (if I can find themBig%20smile) I will buy.  Vinyl just sounds so much better, the album covers are bigger to look at, and I love Gatefold covers!  You never see gatefold covers like Warrior On The Edge Of Time by Hawkwind anymore Wink.

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Points: 73 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2007 at 23:44
I have a decent amount of prog LPs, my most recent acquisitions include Gentle Giant's Playing The Fool and Steve Hackett's Voyage of the Acolyte.

I LOVE vinyl.

I have only just started to collect it, but the sound is much warmer and less metallic and digital than CDs. I would take a record over a CD of the same album any day.
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2007 at 23:59
I own many LP's (vinyl) of the classic 70's stuff (ELP, Crimson, Yes, you name it), bought back in the day when they were released.  I also own the CD's of same, which I listen to when I want more pristine sound.  Agreed the LP's sound better, but there's one huge problem:
 
In spite of judicious use of Diskkeeper, replacing paper sleeves with plastic, etc., many times we were chemically altered while listening to this stuff and didn't necessarily treat them well.  We were teenagers and didn't keep our needles replaced as recommended, or we had too high a tracking weight on the turntable which has unfortunately worn out some of the nuances.  The high end equipment was not within our reach, and the LP's suffered.  In short,  the LP's are not always in that great of shape and don't sound anywhere near as good as they once did.  Not that there are skips or other huge flaws, but there's a lot of extraneous noise due to sloppy treatment.
 
I guess I could sell my LP's on ebay, but the buyer is not going to get the original experience.
 
(Let me know if your interested LOL), now that you know the TRUTH.


Edited by jammun - August 23 2007 at 00:02
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Points: 2614 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2007 at 14:11
I prefer vinyls by far.  
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Points: 840 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2007 at 14:17
Vinyls, but only for the older stuff.  CD's are for modern albums (for me at least) and I like older stuff in Vinyl format, although I do also get some modern stuff in Vinyl format when possible.
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2007 at 16:10
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

I own many LP's (vinyl) of the classic 70's stuff (ELP, Crimson, Yes, you name it), bought back in the day when they were released.  I also own the CD's of same, which I listen to when I want more pristine sound.  Agreed the LP's sound better, but there's one huge problem:
 
In spite of judicious use of Diskkeeper, replacing paper sleeves with plastic, etc., many times we were chemically altered while listening to this stuff and didn't necessarily treat them well.  We were teenagers and didn't keep our needles replaced as recommended, or we had too high a tracking weight on the turntable which has unfortunately worn out some of the nuances.  The high end equipment was not within our reach, and the LP's suffered.  In short,  the LP's are not always in that great of shape and don't sound anywhere near as good as they once did.  Not that there are skips or other huge flaws, but there's a lot of extraneous noise due to sloppy treatment.
 
I guess I could sell my LP's on ebay, but the buyer is not going to get the original experience.
 
(Let me know if your interested LOL), now that you know the TRUTH.


Very important point, and unfortunately one that seems to be forgotten or ignored in most of these discussions.
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