Political discussion thread

Ghost Rider wrote: Sorry if I sound pedantic, but I'd like to debunk a common myth - the Roman Empire wasn't so much militarily invaded as we tend to think nowadays, as it 'imploded', so to say. When Romulus Augustolus was deposed in 469 A.D., there had already been a string of barbarian-born emperors, and the Roman army was comprised by more than half by people of barbarian descent. As to the image of the 'hordes' invading the Empire, those migrations usually involved whole populations, including elderly people and children, who travelled with their belongings looking for more favourable conditions in which to settle down. In most cases, the impact of those migrations on the inhabitants of the various regions of the Empire was not particularly traumatic, and the people blended together after a short while. This is much closer to what is happening in our own time - as Vico's theory of recurring cycles in the history of man would explain. Empires last for a given amount of time, then start getting weaker and weaker, and eventually they succumb and diminish to almost nothing. Traumatic ends, such as in the cause of the Austro-Hungarian empire after WWI, are quite rare.

Ghost Rider wrote: Personally, what I see as serious weaknesses in the fabric of American society are the false affluence in which too many people live, which leads them more and more into debt; the disregard for the environment, wastefulness, and excessive reliance on oil and its products; the obvious discrimination of ethnic minorities, especially in a social sense, which often leads to outbursts of violence. In my very humble opinion, these are ticking time bombs in any kind of society.

I think it's ridiculous that people are still trying to pull out the racism card in 21st Century America. Minorities are NOT discriminated against, even to the point that employers can't fire an incompetent minority worker for fear of being sued. Of course there are some hillbillies who still behave in racist ways, but look at the way anyone in any kind of position of power is lynched by the media if they say anything even vaguely racist.

If anything, minorities get special treatment. (Affirmative action, anyone?)

Ghost Rider wrote: @ Rich: the circumstances of the world have completely changed in almost 2,000 years, so it is not easy to foresee in which way the US could 'fall'. As an outside observer who has been spending some time in your country, and getting to know it better through my American-born fiancé, I see many things that could point to a weakness in the system. These days, I think, military strength is not enough, as instead it could have been true in ancient times. The fates of the world's many peoples are much more closely connected nowadays than they were in the 5th century AD, for obvious reasons, and the factors that could bring about the 'fall' of an empire are not likely to be the same. Personally, what I see as serious weaknesses in the fabric of American society are the false affluence in which too many people live, which leads them more and more into debt; the disregard for the environment, wastefulness, and excessive reliance on oil and its products; the obvious discrimination of ethnic minorities, especially in a social sense, which often leads to outbursts of violence. In my very humble opinion, these are ticking time bombs in any kind of society.

ahh interesting...
.
very true they are timebombs...and no one is checking the fuse

...add in the severe inequalities in the educational system where this country is cranking out kids who can't even tell you who Stalin was, and won't even come close to competing in the world economy. Take out a sizeable percentage of those who might be prepared for college, but simply can't afford it. Thus they have to...ahhh... Our citizens follow the lead of our government.... borrowing and living beyond our means.... our government can afford to do that ... it's citizens can't.

Watch the number of houses that will foreclosed upon in the next few years when these variable rate loans increase.  The newscasts are beginning to pick up of what a bomb is about to go off in the real estate market... and the economy.

Add in the state of the government and politics here.... issues that HAVE to be dealt with are simply not being dealt with.  Social Security... immigration...  alternative energy...  all because of the complete breakdown of one of the fundamental tenants of a democracy... compromise.   It has become a death struggle for power between the left and the right.. no one will win... yet all will lose.  These are jokers that could care less... they are all rich or at least extremely well-off... why?... because you have to be to even be to seriously run for office.  Funny huh... for a government based on rule by the people.

Lastly....  I think Raff is dead on... the days of unilateral military action and pure military strength are finished.  Globalization has made not only the U.S. but damn near everyone dependent on each other economically.  The EU has recognized that....  and has used that to outmaneuver Bush.  The EU is stepping up where the US has failed... to be the benefactor of the world.. and to whom do those other countries look to... not us. 

Depressing?.... it should be unless you have your head in the sand.

1800iareyay wrote:   Recently Russia got paranoid that we were putting nuclear missiles near them because the US wanted them near the Middle East. I don't know why the US would do this, it's not like we can nuke terrorism.

I know why we would.... because our leaders are too goddamned ignorant of foreign policy issues and other countries sensibilities until they are good and pissed off at us

To think that Iran would fire off a missile at Europe is insane...  there are other ways to deliver a nuke.... and Patriot missiles won't stop them.

micky wrote: ahh interesting... . very true they are timebombs...and no one is checking the fuse ...add in the severe inequalities in the educational system where this country is cranking out kids who can't even tell you who Stalin was, and won't even come close to competing in the world economy. Take out a sizeable percentage of those who might be prepared for college, but simply can't afford it. Thus they have to...ahhh... Our citizens follow the lead of our government.... borrowing and living beyond our means.... our government can afford to do that ... it's citizens can't.   Our government has done a laughable job of managing our public schools which anyone can agree are a serious problem at this point, but I blame the situation more on today's glorification of "multiculturalism" and "diversity is our strength" mantras than I do the government. Since this idea has been popularized, and even codified now by our government, blacks are raised being taught to be proud to be black, hispanics are raised told be proud to be hispanic, and when they grow up they look around and they don't see other Americans, they see whities and asians. It creates divisions and provides a hatred for the next strata of society. So, instead of striving to move up in ranks they take pride in their lower class and  uneducated status. Kids who try to do well in school are mocked, tormented, and even beat for acting white. When the nation wakes up and realizes we are one people and not a collection of races some real change and progress can be made. When our cultural elite stop preaching the destructive "in our diversity is our strength" and we return to "E Pluribus Unum" our society will be much better off. Watch the number of houses that will foreclosed upon in the next few years when these variable rate loans increase.  The newscasts are beginning to pick up of what a bomb is about to go off in the real estate market... and the economy. Add in the state of the government and politics here.... issues that HAVE to be dealt with are simply not being dealt with.  Social Security... immigration...  alternative energy...  all because of the complete breakdown of one of the fundamental tenants of a democracy... compromise.   It has become a death struggle for power between the left and the right.. no one will win... yet all will lose.  These are jokers that could care less... they are all rich or at least extremely well-off... why?... because you have to be to even be to seriously run for office.  Funny huh... for a government based on rule by the people.   It would still be possible for a regular schmoe to make a successful run for office if not for the McCain Feingold reform act. I don't think it's an inherit flaw in the system or condition of today's society. If we repeal that law it won't be likely, but at least possible for an everyday man to get elected. Lastly....  I think Raff is dead on... the days of unilateral military action and pure military strength are finished.  Globalization has made not only the U.S. but damn near everyone dependent on each other economically.  The EU has recognized that....  and has used that to outmaneuver Bush.  The EU is stepping up where the US has failed... to be the benefactor of the world.. and to whom do those other countries look to... not us.  Depressing?.... it should be unless you have your head in the sand.

micky wrote: Add in the state of the government and politics here.... issues that HAVE to be dealt with are simply not being dealt with.  Social Security... immigration...  alternative energy...  all because of the complete breakdown of one of the fundamental tenants of a democracy... compromise.   It has become a death struggle for power between the left and the right.. no one will win... yet all will lose.  These are jokers that could care less... they are all rich or at least extremely well-off... why?... because you have to be to even be to seriously run for office.  Funny huh... for a government based on rule by the people.

StyLaZyn wrote: micky wrote: Add in the state of the government and politics here.... issues that HAVE to be dealt with are simply not being dealt with.  Social Security... immigration...  alternative energy...  all because of the complete breakdown of one of the fundamental tenants of a democracy... compromise.   It has become a death struggle for power between the left and the right.. no one will win... yet all will lose.  These are jokers that could care less... they are all rich or at least extremely well-off... why?... because you have to be to even be to seriously run for office.  Funny huh... for a government based on rule by the people.   I have for years now felt that the country is run by those who are completely out of touch with the needs of average American.  Having someone who is wealthy make the rules for the rest of the much poorer country in itself indicates a huge problem and to think there will be any fairness is a huge leap of faith.  These guys don't live paycheck to paycheck.   The American public is being walked all over.  They are focusing on entertainment and not paying attention to the laws being made.  You can be assured, the politicians are aware of this and it is in their best interest to ensure Average Joe and his family are watching the latest reality show and not talking to each other or their neighbors.

Bill Maher on Larry King now.

What an awesome man! If only he were president.

[QUOTE=Equality 7-2521] [QUOTE=micky] ahh interesting....

Edited by Easy Money - August 14 2007 at 22:49

No. I equate Hispanic pride or any other racial pride with disunity. It's quite the antithesis of assimilation. It's fine to be proud of where you came from as long as you realize what you are now, an American no different from any other American.