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Equality 7-2521 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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 Posted: August 07 2007 at 14:50 |
 StyLaZyn wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
Proletariat wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
The way I see it, if charity could really work on it's own, welfare never would have been created. Also, we would have had free society's where no one was in poverty. Man is selfish. Yes, he shares on occasion, but not all the time. The idea of true communism, an all sharing what's mine is yours environment, can't even work.
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in the end nothing works, we try for what is best.
How do you know true communism wont work? |
Well, I don't actually.  And since I grew up during the Cold War, the idea of communism is bad....very bad, well, as an American. Heck, Jesus was a communist of sorts yet the Christian Church is full of profiteering.
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Explain to me some of this profiteering. |
Maybe that isn't the exact word, but I have first hand account, because I lived next to this preacher. Big beautiful house and very nice cars. He told his congregation that he was struggling to pay his bills and after praying to Jesus, they should assist him because he in turn assists them.
The idea of making money of the name of Jesus, or using Jesus to make money, to me seems extremely hypocritical. |
I speak only for the Catholic Church because that's the only one I know enough of to defend or prosecute. The man from your personal experiance isn't a Catholic priest so I'll only say that on the fringe of the Christian religion exploitation tends to run rampant and suck in so many innocent people who's lives become ruined. These fringe groups do not speak or reflect Christianity or Catholicism or religion as a whole.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 14:50 |
The T wrote:
Now THAT's A QUOTE...
But there are great christians.... they actually exist.... |
Case in point....Mother Theresa
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 14:52 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
To say that is to spit on the graves of people like Mother Theresa who did as near to the work of Christ that any human could do. |
I love your Mother Theresa but I dont like those who say im spitting on her grave, they are so unlike your Mother Theresa
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 14:56 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
To say that is to spit on the graves of people like Mother Theresa who did as near to the work of Christ that any human could do. |
That's true... but you insist on seeing rare-great-exceptions as rules... that's the hole in the logic.... there was only ONE Mother Teresa... |
Getting off politics with this thread. But anyway I often wonder if without religion she would do the same. It takes a strong person to have such devotion, but guilt can move a person to do things too. Growing up Catholic, I know the power of needing to "sacrifice".
Edited by StyLaZyn - August 07 2007 at 14:57
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 14:58 |
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To quote Homer Simpson, I would just like to say "Praise Jebus".
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 14:59 |
Proletariat:
I never said you.
And I don't like those who see Christian as a sort of group of hypocrits and exploiters. I don't like those who will make a blanket statement like that and ignore the sacrifices of countless Catholics and Christians throughout history. Also, just because only Mother Theresa captured the world's attention as she did does not mean she is the only 'Mother Theresa' out there.
Edited by Equality 7-2521 - August 07 2007 at 15:00
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:01 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
To say that is to spit on the graves of people like Mother Theresa who did as near to the work of Christ that any human could do. |
That's true... but you insist on seeing rare-great-exceptions as rules... that's the hole in the logic.... there was only ONE Mother Teresa... |
Getting off politics with this thread. But anyway I often wonder if without religion she would do the same. It takes a strong person to have such devotion, but guilt can move a person to do things too. Growing up Catholic, I know the power of needing to "sacrifice". |
this is a case where I would say: it doesn't matter. It may have been that without religion she wouldn't had done so much for the poor, but if that's the case, thank God there was such a stronng religion in her heart.... Religion can work wonders in some people.... others just let their religion do the work....
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:02 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
To say that is to spit on the graves of people like Mother Theresa who did as near to the work of Christ that any human could do. |
That's true... but you insist on seeing rare-great-exceptions as rules... that's the hole in the logic.... there was only ONE Mother Teresa... |
Getting off politics with this thread. But anyway I often wonder if without religion she would do the same. It takes a strong person to have such devotion, but guilt can move a person to do things too. Growing up Catholic, I know the power of needing to "sacrifice". |
She no doubt would have done the same to some degree. An amount of compassion and sympathy like that does not come from faith alone. However, would she have even be as aware of the plight or had the conviction to stick through till the end in the degree she did without religion, I don't know.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:03 |
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Just like money, religion should be a MEANS, not an END in itself...
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:07 |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:07 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Proletariat:
I never said you.
And I don't like those who see Christian as a sort of group of hypocrits and exploiters. I don't like those who will make a blanket statement like that and ignore the sacrifices of countless Catholics and Christians throughout history. Also, just because only Mother Theresa captured the world's attention as she did does not mean she is the only 'Mother Theresa' out there. |
So now as a christian you need to prove ghandi wrong, go out and be more like christ, dont argue that there are some who are like christ, be like him yourself
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:08 |
EQ,
Just so you know, I am very much an anti-Catholic due to an abused brother who is essentially crazy now because his own parents wouldn't believe he was abused "because their church and priests would never do that to their son especially after all their praying to God and sacrifices they made". Oh, it's ugly. I have built up much anti-organized religion sentiment. And in this stepping away from my faith, I have really opened my eyes to how things really are. I have seen that religion does in fact move people to do things they wouldn't normally do. But their methods are questionable.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:10 |
Proletariat wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Proletariat:
I never said you.
And I don't like those who see Christian as a sort of group of hypocrits and exploiters. I don't like those who will make a blanket statement like that and ignore the sacrifices of countless Catholics and Christians throughout history. Also, just because only Mother Theresa captured the world's attention as she did does not mean she is the only 'Mother Theresa' out there. |
So now as a christian you need to prove ghandi wrong, go out and be more like christ, dont argue that there are some who are like christ, be like him yourself |
Theocentricity at it's finest. Most faiths are guilty of it.
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:10 |
Religion is cheaper than opium
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:14 |
Proletariat wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Proletariat:
I never said you.
And I don't like those who see Christian as a sort of group of hypocrits and exploiters. I don't like those who will make a blanket statement like that and ignore the sacrifices of countless Catholics and Christians throughout history. Also, just because only Mother Theresa captured the world's attention as she did does not mean she is the only 'Mother Theresa' out there. |
So now as a christian you need to prove ghandi wrong, go out and be more like christ, dont argue that there are some who are like christ, be like him yourself |
Don't judge as if you know what I do. I'm not a Mother Theresa nor do I ever think I will have the abilities to be, but I do what I can. There's actions behind what I preach; they may not be monumentous but as Mother Theresa herself said "It is not the magnitude of our actions but the amount of love that is put into them that matters"
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:14 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
^
A means to what end? |
To live better, to live more happily, to make the world a better place....go ask Christ...go read His words....
Money is a means to achieve certain goals... but we've turned it into a religion... and now, mixed with RELIGION, (as the right is doing), well, there's a double-fanatism going on that only gets further and further away from what Christ told us....
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:17 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
EQ,
Just so you know, I am very much an anti-Catholic due to an abused brother who is essentially crazy now because his own parents wouldn't believe he was abused "because their church and priests would never do that to their son especially after all their praying to God and sacrifices they made". Oh, it's ugly. I have built up much anti-organized religion sentiment. And in this stepping away from my faith, I have really opened my eyes to how things really are. I have seen that religion does in fact move people to do things they wouldn't normally do. But their methods are questionable. |
There are no doubt charlatans of the faith that do unspeakable evils. But don't forget there are atheists who do the same. Don't let the actions of some individuals rot the whole group to you.
Many prayers to your brother though.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:20 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
^
A means to what end? |
To live better, to live more happily, to make the world a better place....go ask Christ...go read His words....
Money is a means to achieve certain goals... but we've turned it into a religion... and now, mixed with RELIGION, (as the right is doing), well, there's a double-fanatism going on that only gets further and further away from what Christ told us.... |
If you're doing nothing to make the world a better place you're not Catholic no matter what you say to yourself. Making the world a better place is included in being Catholic.
I'm sorry I disagree. Religion is the ultimate end. To say it is a means is to cheapen it.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:20 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Proletariat wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Proletariat:
I never said you.
And I don't like those who see Christian as a sort of group of hypocrits and exploiters. I don't like those who will make a blanket statement like that and ignore the sacrifices of countless Catholics and Christians throughout history. Also, just because only Mother Theresa captured the world's attention as she did does not mean she is the only 'Mother Theresa' out there. |
So now as a christian you need to prove ghandi wrong, go out and be more like christ, dont argue that there are some who are like christ, be like him yourself |
Don't judge as if you know what I do. I'm not a Mother Theresa nor do I ever think I will have the abilities to be, but I do what I can. There's actions behind what I preach; they may not be monumentous but as Mother Theresa herself said "It is not the magnitude of our actions but the amount of love that is put into them that matters" |
I'm not attacking you, I'm speaking to christians in general
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 15:22 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
^
A means to what end? |
To live better, to live more happily, to make the world a better place....go ask Christ...go read His words....
Money is a means to achieve certain goals... but we've turned it into a religion... and now, mixed with RELIGION, (as the right is doing), well, there's a double-fanatism going on that only gets further and further away from what Christ told us.... |
If you're doing nothing to make the world a better place you're not Catholic no matter what you say to yourself. Making the world a better place is included in being Catholic.
I'm sorry I disagree. Religion is the ultimate end. To say it is a means is to cheapen it. |
just wondering, would you say that any religion is an ultamate end or that just yours is?
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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