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VanderGraafKommandöh 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
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 Posted: March 22 2007 at 08:43 |
Wrong room, Ben. 
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progismylife
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Joined: October 19 2006
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 08:45 |
No not the wrong room. I meant this:
 progismylife wrote:
I do not think that the liking/disliking of older prog has to do with generations. Maybe it has to deal with the way these albums/bands were introduced, people saying it is the best (being subjective all the way) or comparing it to a few things and saying something somewhat subjective about it (like I think this album sounds like so and so at times it is very good I appreciate the jazz influences).
I think it is the younger generation reading too much into the older generations reviews (when the sound was new and totally awesome) and seeing that this album is said to be really good and having listened to music that came out of this period of older prog, were not "blown away" because they had heard similar sounding stuff in less doses.
It may have to do with expectations of something. I try to not have expectations of somehting (meaning I don't really judge any book by its cover but rather by the content of the book) and am usually satisfied with the albums I listen to (does not matter how new or old it is) because I did not expect things from it. I read reviews and see people with similar tastes to me like the album so I buy it to give it a shot. I do not take the song by song reviews fully until I have heard that album and want to know this persons opinion on that specific album.
So I think the "overrated" thing has to do with people forming opinions on reviews and taking the subjective as objective and not seeing the subjectiveness that was in the review in the music.
I hope that made sense.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 08:45 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 08:46 |
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Oh, I thought you meant the bass playing post in that other room next door.
Edited by Geck0 - March 22 2007 at 08:46
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kazansky
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Joined: December 24 2006
Location: Indonesia
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Points: 5085
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 09:16 |
I think the way things become considered as overrated actually is only a matter of point of view,or tastes. Because something that good for someone won't always become a good think for other people. 'Overrated', i think is just a different term that used as a different way to say that someone actually doesn't like a particular thing.
As a matter of musical tastes, (and other things too, i believe) generations sometimes can make a gap, and it's normal. The more important thing IMO is to think 'If you don't like it, then just leave it, no need to bashing it in public'. It's not that it would kill you to have other people like something that you don't anyway. Taste is personal, and people shouldn't be too bothered complaining other's tastes. For example, i hate rap, but should i say to everyone that listen to rap that their music is crap ? Terms such as overrated (and underrated as well) while sometimes is inveitable, it shouldn't be made as common terms among society.
yours sincerely 
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The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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The T
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 14:57 |
All of you people are overrated....I, on the other hand, am underrated... 
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 14:58 |
The T wrote:
All of you people are overrated....I, on the other hand, am underrated...
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No you just don't get it.  
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The T
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 15:14 |
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Garion81
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Posted: August 03 2007 at 14:51 |
Instead of saying overrated how about popular selections I don't care for? It actually is more accurate. Overrated usually means something that is highly touted by its makers and sometimes professional critics that actually falls flat on its face in public opinion. In that case all of prog is overated. 
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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1800iareyay
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Joined: November 18 2006
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Posted: August 03 2007 at 20:13 |
The thing about overrated is that it can mean anything from "great, but not a pure masterpiece" to "pondering how this album could have achieved success causes me to lose sleep". Whenever I use it, I use it in the first extreme, and anything I find atrocious doesn't even get the honor of being called overrated.
As for the generational argument (the actual argument of the thread), it's hard to say. I certainly think witnessing the impact an album has is a lot more powerful than someone like me picking up a CD remaster thirty years later and not liking it. However, I call an album dated extremely rarely because I recognize that many of these album have made impacts and it's unfair to dock points from an album for not sounding relevant thiry or more years later (though it certainly wins points for staying relevant i.e. Quadrophenia). In the end, it depends or whether or not the listener can accept that the album was made for the time it was made and some things won't sound fresh, but others may still be as poignant today as they were then.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: August 04 2007 at 05:51 |
Coming back to the initial topic (Peter's post): I think it works both ways. Sometimes youngsters might feel that the old masterpieces are overrated ... sometimes "oldsters" might feel that the masterpieces of modern prog are overrated. In the end both are wrong - and right. The word "overrated" is the problem ... it's suggesting that the ratings of other people are wrong, which is not possible since they're all opinions. If someone feels that Dream Theater - Images & Words deserves 5 stars and is a prog masterpiece ... there is *nothing* that anybody can do about it. And if the same person gives 2 stars to Yes - Close to the Edge ... again there is nothing we can do about it. Bottom line: we all have favorite styles and albums ... we regard them highly, and sometimes we wish that more people would share our opinion. But you can't change other peoples' minds - all you can do is to present your arguments, give them a chance to explore these albums themselves and *maybe* they'll change their minds, but as soon as you try to "push" them in the right direction, they might turn the other way. 
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - August 04 2007 at 05:52
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: August 04 2007 at 06:28 |
We judge the music+artist rather than just the music on its own merits. This means that a 3-star album could get a extra point if the person *loves* the artist or be docked one if they don't.
This happens across the generations, we all do it subconsciously - it is human nature. It is like that first painting your 5-year old kid brings home after their first week at school (12 years on an it's still blu-tak'd to the 'fridge door  ) - you know it's not very good, but it's by your 'baby'. The eye-opener for me on first visiting this site was the impresive number of 'youngsters' who venerate the old bands beyond reproach, compared to some of us 'oldsters' who can now see only their faults and foibles. If anything, it is the grumpies who dislike modern prog that are the problem
I don't dislike the 'overrated' word as such and see nothing wrong in pointing out that some albums are not that good even when viewed in context, some old albums that are 'rated' today weren't that well liked back-in-the-day, sol the reverse can be equally true.
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What?
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Peter
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Posted: August 05 2007 at 00:01 |
 Wow -- some great new responses to an old thread -- thanks!
I know that sometimes I might come across as condescending here, but it's not my intent. I value all opinions, and hope that others, on whatever "side," might find this topic interesting too. Age and generation, old prog and new prog are facts of life here -- we should be able to discuss them and their impacts. Thanks for taking part so civilly, all! 
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: August 05 2007 at 00:38 |
For me the word OVERRATED implies many supositions:
- A huge number of people like an album or band.
- One person doesn't like that album or band
- This person believes the huge number of persons are wrong because they value high an album and/or band he believes is crap.
- This person doesn't even imagine he may be wrong in his suposition or that simply taste doesn't have rules, he hates the album and/or band, then it has to be overrated.
- Of course this person believes he has the supreme taste and all of the others are just a bunch of idiots.
Ergo
Overrated is the most arrogant term in English language, it simply means all the others are wrong I am right, their taste sucks, mine rules. 
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 05 2007 at 00:40
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: August 05 2007 at 17:09 |
The term overrated is so overrated........
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
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Points: 3089
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Posted: August 05 2007 at 17:18 |
JJLehto wrote:
The term overrated is so overrated........
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This joke is also overrated
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Points: 34550
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Posted: August 05 2007 at 19:34 |
andu wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
The term overrated is so overrated........
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This joke is also overrated
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Perhaps it is just too great for you.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 03:42 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Coming back to the initial topic (Peter's post):I think it works both ways. Sometimes youngsters might feel that the old masterpieces are overrated ... sometimes "oldsters" might feel that the masterpieces of modern prog are overrated. In the end both are wrong - and right. |
Not to forget of course that opinions, being the subjective fickle things they are, can change; how many times have you seen an old 'classic' album referred to here, thought "That's a great album - I haven't heard it for years", bought it on CD, listened & thought... "Oh...  ". Thus, over the years what you considered once to be 'under-rated' can on later listening and with grey hindsight become 'over-rated'.
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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"Overrated" largely a generational concept?
