Political discussion thread

^^^

That's certainly not the case in the US...quite the opposite, really.

Geck0 wrote: Are you saying I can move to the US and get a nice job, a mortgage and free health care then?

I meant that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are poor compared to the citizens...they receive very low wages (very often under minimum wage) because the employers know they have no recourse.

But to answer your question, if you have skills that are in need here and are willing to work hard, yes you can have all those things - as I do.

Well the immigrants get low wages here too, so I'm not sure where they get their money from.

There's a lot of Polish and Portuguese in Swindon (both are EU countries), but the majority of them work in low paid sectors of work (such as Bus driving... which always worries me actually!).  I have no problem with hem though.

It's the Eastern Bloc immigrants that seem to have the money though.

micky wrote: hoping Raff will come on later... she's worn out and taking a quick nap....  and tell you all why I chose this topic and why so many come illegally.   Try to emigrate here legally... even with multiple degrees....a stable government job...  financial means above what most of Americans have and so on.... even as a spouse to a citizen what she (or anyone)  has to face is daunting. there is something wrong about that

Unfortunately, this seems to be the case. I speak five languages including my own, have two Master's degrees, considerable experience as a language teacher and a cultural promotion officer, and should be completing my PhD by the beginning of next year. My financial position is sound, and I am a honest, reliable, hardworking person coming from a good, honest, hardworking family background.

In spite of all that, I will have to spend a sizable amount of money, not to mention be submitted to a medical examination (and the thought of having possibly to get vaccinations against children's illnesses at the ripe old age of 46 doesn't really make me very happy) and an interview which might touch on some aspects of my private life in order to get permission to live with my husband in the USA. If he decided to move to Italy, though, all he would have to do is to apply to get  a 5-year residence card (NOT a visa or a permit), a mere formality which would enable him to move freely in the European countries that subscribed the Schengen Agreement.

I know some of you will tell me now about the numerous Green Card scams having happened in the past, when two perfect strangers got married in order to guarantee one party free entry to the USA, and possibly citizenship a few years later. Well, I'm quite sure people who want that have already found a way around the red tape, while people like me - who will probably NEVER be a burden to your Social Security system - will have to go through what, to my European mind, is a violation of some basic human rights.

As a matter of fact, the Italian Constitution protects every individual citizen's right to form a family - I thought the American Constitution did the same, but probably that only applies to those US citizens who don't marry potentially dangerous foreigners.

Wow this thread has not been deleted yet!!!

Edited by JJLehto - July 25 2007 at 19:44

1800iareyay wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: But fences certainly do work. I remember the Chinese having a problem with illegal immigration and building a pretty big fence that seemed to do the trick. Those immigrants were invaders who wanted to sack, pillage, and rape everything in China. Not the same at all. Also, the bits of fence on the US/Mexico border are only a few feet high, whereas the Great Wall is about 20 feet high and made of sheer rock not easily climable chain link

Geck0 wrote: Well the immigrants get low wages here too, so I'm not sure where they get their money from. There's a lot of Polish and Portuguese in Swindon (both are EU countries), but the majority of them work in low paid sectors of work (such as Bus driving... which always worries me actually!).  I have no problem with hem though. It's the Eastern Bloc immigrants that seem to have the money though.

stonebeard wrote: Ah! Reminds me of those two boarder patrol agents who shot a drug dealer in the ass who was crossing the boarder. He sued them, and now they're in jail. If Bush doesn't commute their sentences....I don't know. It's sick.

Proletariat wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Angelo wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: ^ The two sentences are related in responding point by point to 1900iareyay's post: "Pat, I don't know of any European country that is fenced in. The prospect of building a fence is laughable in its simplicity. Who will build it? "   Yes it is sad that assimilation is no longer occuring. If it keeps occuring that way it will be much more than sad; it will be the end of the countries.   But fences certainly do work. I remember the Chinese having a problem with illegal immigration and building a pretty big fence that seemed to do the trick.     Yeah, that worked, in times when there were no airplanes and in an area where sea ports and rivers didn't provide back doors. (Thanks for clarifying the sentences.)   Well yes of course it won't stop illegal immigration through those means, but when did anyone expect it to. We're supposed to have airport and seaport security to check those things. We're discussing a different issue here which is illegals crossing on the U.S.-Mexico border. China did block immigrants out, but that led to their falling behind to a point where only recently through the overly extreame means of Maoist polocy have become a world power again. Walls kill economy, the us needs immigrants. Let them come. Even with the wall the mongols invaded.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Proletariat wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Ghost Rider wrote: micky wrote: hoping Raff will come on later... she's worn out and taking a quick nap....  and tell you all why I chose this topic and why so many come illegally.   Try to emigrate here legally... even with multiple degrees....a stable government job...  financial means above what most of Americans have and so on.... even as a spouse to a citizen what she (or anyone)  has to face is daunting. there is something wrong about that Unfortunately, this seems to be the case. I speak five languages including my own, have two Master's degrees, considerable experience as a language teacher and a cultural promotion officer, and should be completing my PhD by the beginning of next year. My financial position is sound, and I am a honest, reliable, hardworking person coming from a good, honest, hardworking family background. In spite of all that, I will have to spend a sizable amount of money, not to mention be submitted to a medical examination (and the thought of having possibly to get vaccinations against children's illnesses at the ripe old age of 46 doesn't really make me very happy) and an interview which might touch on some aspects of my private life in order to get permission to live with my husband in the USA. If he decided to move to Italy, though, all he would have to do is to apply to get  a 5-year residence card (NOT a visa or a permit), a mere formality which would enable him to move freely in the European countries that subscribed the Schengen Agreement. I know some of you will tell me now about the numerous Green Card scams having happened in the past, when two perfect strangers got married in order to guarantee one party free entry to the USA, and possibly citizenship a few years later. Well, I'm quite sure people who want that have already found a way around the red tape, while people like me - who will probably NEVER be a burden to your Social Security system - will have to go through what, to my European mind, is a violation of some basic human rights. As a matter of fact, the Italian Constitution protects every individual citizen's right to form a family - I thought the American Constitution did the same, but probably that only applies to those US citizens who don't marry potentially dangerous foreigners.   A medical examination and an interview are a violation of basic human rights? I guess every employer in the world, as well as colleges and universities, are all violating human rights. A country's safety is pretty important especially to those living in it; some precautions do have to be taken before people can waltz right in. Those pesky medical checks are what eliminated diseases like TB in this country; only to have it become reanimated by illegal imigration. True, but on the other hand you dont need an interview to remain a citizen. Mabe they should require a interview evry ten years to renew your citizenship just in case, but then you are only worried about your rights and wouldent go for it.     Let's not play that game. Making citizens be subject to an interview to remain a citizen doesn't really make any sense. Especially since I don't believe there are any legal means for removing citizenship once it is gained.   Though of course if it was required I would go.