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Topic ClosedA major flaw in our judgment!!!
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1800iareyay View Drop Down
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Points: 2492 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 14:43
Originally posted by schizoid_man77 schizoid_man77 wrote:

I stand my ground!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ian, shut up. Your ground is eroding beneath you. Why does this affect you so? What will you do in life when a legitimate problem surfaces? You don't have to agree with the list. Hell, my top ten would have one and only one Gensis album, but I'm not going around telling others that they're flawed individuals. You need to relax. Might I suggest listening to some Pink Floyd?Wink
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Points: 2492 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 14:43
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Originally posted by 1800iareyay 1800iareyay wrote:

Ghandi's not such a pacifist, huh? LOL

 
I was just thinking the same thing. The name must be a sarcastic one, eh?
 
 
I'm always in the mood for some irony.
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Points: 1494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 14:51
No more Mr. Passive Resistance! (Please ignore the subtitles and low rez and darkness)
 
Moderating my other forum has made me mean. It's not my fault! D:
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Points: 427 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 15:02
I rather agree with much of what Ghandi says, and I appreciate his/her? forthrightness, but...as for the spelling, I hope your username isn't fashioned after Mohandas K. Gandhi, because if so, you can't spell either!
The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning
And all the rest is just bullsh*t
-Steve Kilbey
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Points: 11682 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 15:13
Originally posted by Ghandi 2 Ghandi 2 wrote:

No more Mr. Passive Resistance! (Please ignore the subtitles and low rez and darkness)
 
Moderating my other forum has made me mean. It's not my fault! D:
A classic movie LOL
<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]
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Points: 1494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 15:44
Originally posted by Heptade Heptade wrote:

I rather agree with much of what Ghandi says, and I appreciate his/her? forthrightness, but...as for the spelling, I hope your username isn't fashioned after Mohandas K. Gandhi, because if so, you can't spell either!
His (there are no girls on the internet Wink), and the mispelling is intentional to respect the memory of Gandhi more, and so there is a slightly lower chance of my being sent to Hell for naming myself after that video clip. I've heard, though, that it could be spelt either way; I think it's because Indian (or whatever) uses characters that aren't even close to English's. Thank you for the compliment as well. :)
 
Yes, UHF is an underappreciated classic. But stupid Raiders of the Lost Ark had to come out at the same time and ruin its commercial success. If you enjoy a bit of "dumb" humor, you should rent it immediately. I can't say I'm still a fan of Weird Al's music, but that movie is genius.


Edited by Ghandi 2 - June 26 2007 at 15:46
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Points: 427 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 15:52
Darn...I tried to get you, but you've got an answer for everything, you glib son of a gun.

I really like Wish You Were Here. Not prog? That kid of strains the boundaries of credibility, doesn't it? Pink Floyd helped invent the genre!
The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning
And all the rest is just bullsh*t
-Steve Kilbey
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 15:59
Originally posted by Heptade Heptade wrote:

I really like Wish You Were Here. Not prog? That kid of strains the boundaries of credibility, doesn't it? Pink Floyd helped invent the genre!
 
That is news to me.  I thought the pretentious artsy types were the originators of Prog.  The ones who played lofty difficult pieces.  You could, however, say they helped invent Space or Psychedelic Rock.
 
I think PF was an after the fact inclusion. 
 
edit: I also think their laurels have much to do with their inclusion. No one discounts the importance of the band to other artists following them, but I have to admit, when I first came here, I was a bit surprised about their inclusion. I am seriously trying to think of a band that plays with simplicity and ranks high among the great Prog musicians outside of PF. One of the true elements of Prog has time and again been complexity of the pieces as a band.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by StyLaZyn - June 26 2007 at 16:09
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Points: 427 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 17:08
Well, now that depends on whether you think musical complexity is a necessary ingredient of progressive music. I don't, personally. I think that's just one strand in this ball of yarn we call "prog".
The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning
And all the rest is just bullsh*t
-Steve Kilbey
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Points: 427 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 17:09
Hence the much-reviled wide ranging scope of our beloved ProgArchives!

The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning
And all the rest is just bullsh*t
-Steve Kilbey
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2007 at 17:47
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Originally posted by Heptade Heptade wrote:

I really like Wish You Were Here. Not prog? That kid of strains the boundaries of credibility, doesn't it? Pink Floyd helped invent the genre!
 
That is news to me.  I thought the pretentious artsy types were the originators of Prog.  The ones who played lofty difficult pieces.  You could, however, say they helped invent Space or Psychedelic Rock.
 
I think PF was an after the fact inclusion. 
 
edit: I also think their laurels have much to do with their inclusion. No one discounts the importance of the band to other artists following them, but I have to admit, when I first came here, I was a bit surprised about their inclusion. I am seriously trying to think of a band that plays with simplicity and ranks high among the great Prog musicians outside of PF. One of the true elements of Prog has time and again been complexity of the pieces as a band.
When Pink Floyd were releasing Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, Dark Side Of The Moon and Wish You Were Here during the first half of the Seventies they were regarded as being a part of the Progressive scene by those in the Progressive music scene and by those Prog-fans buying the records.
 
This is not hearsay, or inclusion after the fact, that is what happened -  I was one those prog-fans, one who also bought Yes, Genesis, Van Der Graaf Generator, King Crimson, Atomic Rooster, Jethro Tull and Tangerine Dream albums.
 
All this nonsense about complexity never entered into it - that is a modern affectation and a fact after the inclusion. If Pink Floyd are not Prog by modern standards and "rules" then the either rules and standards are wrong, or it is the interprettation of those rules that is in error.


Edited by darqdean - June 26 2007 at 17:47
What?
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Points: 1494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2007 at 15:01
Pink Floyd were definately not included as prog restroactively, and I have the interviews with David Gilmour to prove it. Advanced composition was what first defined prog, not technical complexity.
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2007 at 15:11
Well then.  OK.  I always thought it was .  What is advanced composition?
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2007 at 15:40
You have to stop looking at the top 100 as being the definition of greatness. I could supply you with a whole list of worthy albums that almost no one has heard of. I suggest getting away from the well know titles, and doing some exploring.
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Points: 1494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2007 at 17:34
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Well then.  OK.  I always thought it was .  What is advanced composition?
Longer, more thought out, using different techniques besides a verse riff, a chorus riff, and a bridge guitar solo. Sheer technical complexity is often used but is not necessary; Floyd stayed away from it because of their sense of atmosphere (and, to be fair, they did not have extremely good musicianship).
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Points: 1059 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2007 at 07:40

The more popular an album or artist is, the more reviews they will get and therefore certain albums will be elevated through the ranks. Obviously if enough people value an album so much then it can't be overrated.

It is surely rated so highly for a reason, whether or not you see it.
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2007 at 08:59
Originally posted by Paradox Paradox wrote:

The more popular an album or artist is, the more reviews they will get and therefore certain albums will be elevated through the ranks. Obviously if enough people value an album so much then it can't be overrated.
It is surely rated so highly for a reason, whether or not you see it.
 
Popularity pushes people to buy certain albums.  This exposure is why say 95% of the users here own WYWH, versus the 25% who might own, say, a UK album.
 
Are albums over-rated? I'd rather say the lesser known albums are not given a fair shake.
 
 
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2007 at 09:05
Originally posted by Ghandi 2 Ghandi 2 wrote:

Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Well then.  OK.  I always thought it was .  What is advanced composition?
Longer, more thought out, using different techniques besides a verse riff, a chorus riff, and a bridge guitar solo. Sheer technical complexity is often used but is not necessary;
 
It is what it is, we see what we want to see, both sides.  I still believe other bands that aren't labeled Prog, like Floyd, are short changed. Floyd's popularity gives them the upper hand.
 
 


Edited by StyLaZyn - June 28 2007 at 09:07
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2007 at 09:09
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Originally posted by Paradox Paradox wrote:

The more popular an album or artist is, the more reviews they will get and therefore certain albums will be elevated through the ranks. Obviously if enough people value an album so much then it can't be overrated.
It is surely rated so highly for a reason, whether or not you see it.
 
Popularity pushes people to buy certain albums.  This exposure is why say 95% of the users here own WYWH, versus the 25% who might own, say, a UK album.
 
Are albums over-rated? I'd rather say the lesser known albums are not given a fair shake.
 
Unfortunately, lesser known does not mean they are necessarily good. Some albums are lesser known for a reason. In other cases it is down to the record companies not promoting the product or the music press simply ignoring it because it wasn't flavour of the month. All the bands listed on this web-site have recognition, browse any sub-genre, pick a band and choose an album - they are all listed alphabetically - no ranking there.
 
The real exposure issue is not about the "big-five" bands vs the rest, but about all the bands listed vs those that are not.
 
 However, this does not distract from the certainty that cream always rises to the top. Wink
What?
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2007 at 09:26
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Originally posted by Paradox Paradox wrote:

The more popular an album or artist is, the more reviews they will get and therefore certain albums will be elevated through the ranks. Obviously if enough people value an album so much then it can't be overrated.
It is surely rated so highly for a reason, whether or not you see it.
 
Popularity pushes people to buy certain albums.  This exposure is why say 95% of the users here own WYWH, versus the 25% who might own, say, a UK album.
 
Are albums over-rated? I'd rather say the lesser known albums are not given a fair shake.
 
Unfortunately, lesser known does not mean they are necessarily good. Some albums are lesser known for a reason. In other cases it is down to the record companies not promoting the product or the music press simply ignoring it because it wasn't flavour of the month. All the bands listed on this web-site have recognition, browse any sub-genre, pick a band and choose an album - they are all listed alphabetically - no ranking there.
 
The real exposure issue is not about the "big-five" bands vs the rest, but about all the bands listed vs those that are not.
 
 However, this does not distract from the certainty that cream always rises to the top. Wink
 
Good points. The best albums, or at least those most accessible in a mainstream Prog manner, certainly are well represented.  I am realizing this as I type it, those in the Top 10 are mainstream Prog. Possibly the Top 25.
 
Statistically, if all albums were only allowed 50 reviews, I'm sure we'd see a significant ranking change outside the top 10.
 
 
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