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Fassbinder View Drop Down
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2007 at 15:21
What do you mean by "does", Uwe?
 
First of all, I doubt Julian sees those encoded signs when he's situated in the editing area. I'm almost sure that he sees all the titles written properly.
 
As far as I'm concerned, he never had troubles like those I usually have. But I don't know what will be the result if he inserts some Cyrillic characters (for example, if he adds the title "Москва" (written in Cyrillic letters)).
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Points: 17628 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2007 at 16:06
I suggest to send PMs to continue this subject ...  Smile


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Points: 1377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2007 at 06:43
Originally posted by Fassbinder Fassbinder wrote:

What do you mean by "does", Uwe?
 
First of all, I doubt Julian sees those encoded signs when he's situated in the editing area. I'm almost sure that he sees all the titles written properly.
 
As far as I'm concerned, he never had troubles like those I usually have. But I don't know what will be the result if he inserts some Cyrillic characters (for example, if he adds the title "Москва" (written in Cyrillic letters)).


Taking the Cyrillic letters from the Windows Character Map ....

Москва

This is what they look like on the character map, in the editor and displayed .... the character map says these letters are Cyrillic .... and not an accent in sight Confused

How do we go about converting all the entries in these scripts?
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2007 at 07:20
Julian, please, look at this page: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=4342
 
Then enter the editing area and try to insert Москва instead of Москва.
 
What the result is?
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Points: 1377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2007 at 09:00
result ... see for yourself ...

Москва: Live Russia
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Points: 17628 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2007 at 10:05
Originally posted by Joolz Joolz wrote:

result ... see for yourself ...

Москва: Live Russia




Therefore it must be either a problem with Fassbinder's computer settings
or with the procedure he is adding the text ...


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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2007 at 15:05
Usually, I add the text using the Character Map. Sometimes I copy / paste from the posted messages here, but mostly -- through the Character Map.
 
Hence, I think that the problem is not in the procedure (assuming that Julian uses the same procedure), but in my computer.
 
If this is really the case, I should avoid editing problematic pages (fortunately, most non-plain Latin characters (diacriticised letters) are displayed properly after my editing).
 
Eugene


Edited by Fassbinder - May 18 2007 at 15:06
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Points: 17628 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2007 at 08:21
I tried to translate the cryptic part of the tracklisting with Babel Fish assuming this were the authentic titles

Autograf 1/Автограф 1980-82

1. Прикрепите Ремени безопасности / Fasten Seat Belts (instrumental) (3:18)
2. Ливень / The Rainstorm (6:32)
3. 2000 лет / 2000 Years (6:54)
4. Тропка Дней / A Trail Of Days (4:29)
5. Ирландия, Ulster / Ireland, Ulster (4:05)
6. Вчера / Yesterday (4:00)
7. День И Ноча / Day And Night (5:28)
8. Монолог / Monologue (4:38)
9. Хроники Martian, Пинта Ii1/ Martian Chronicles, Pt I (8:57)
10. Хроники Martian, Пинта II - Возвращение / Martian Chronicles, Pt II – The Return (3:55)
11. Син 'Caprice' / Blues 'Caprice' (4:26)
12. Старая Баллада / An Old Ballad (6:46)
13. Корабль / The Ship (6:14)


Doing this I run into some problems:

1) Not every cryptic expression could be translated (track 11) so I used the english version
2) existing english translation differs - track 2 is translated to 'Shower' - track 10 is translated to 'Return II'
3) track 5 contains the name of a region of Ireland and IMO cannot be translated in russian/Cyrillic
4) track 6 - 'Yesterday' re-converted to Cyriilic results in a shorter expression than the original

Summary: very insecure - but what altenatives do we have?
- the use of a transliteration?
- neither Cyrillic nor transliteration?


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Points: 1377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2007 at 08:53
Originally posted by Rivertree Rivertree wrote:

Summary: very insecure - but what altenatives do we have?
- the use of a transliteration?
- neither Cyrillic nor transliteration?

Perhaps an expert in the relevant language(s) could be asked to do some transliterations ... Eugene can probably do some of them ... I would be happy to do the updates if they can be posted in this forum
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Fassbinder View Drop Down
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2007 at 11:29

1. Use of Babel Fish leads to severe errors in translation. For example, "Martian Chronicles" is translated as "Хроники Martian", wich is hardly acceptable, since it should be translated as "Марсианские Хроники". Moreover, "Pt. I" is translated as "Пинта I", which is quite ridiculous -- "пинта" means "pint" LOL... of course, "pint" may be abbreviated to "Pt.", but, obviously, it should be "Part I", i.e. "Часть I" in Russian. There are additional errors too.

Conclusion I: Babel Fish translation shouln't be used.
 
2. First of all, we should decide what do we prefer -- original Russian text, transliteration, or English translation.
 
2a. The way to obtain correct Russian titles is either to ask the album submitter (I don't own any of those albums) or to find them via Internet.
 
2b. I can easily make transliteration, but, then again, I need to have the correct titles in Russian. I wouldn't like to translate titles from English to Russian, since the result will be, perhaps, more satisfactory than through Babel Fish, but still not fully acceptable.
 
Conclusion II: Anyway, we need original titles in Russian.
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2007 at 11:37
Wait... I have the correct titles in Russian in the editing area, they are written in Cyrillic.
 
I'll copy them here. If they are dislayed correctly -- fine, they may be added (as they are or transliterated). If they are not displayed correctly, I'll transliterate them.
 
1. Пристегните Ремни Безопасности / Fasten Seat Belts (instrumental) (3:18)
2. Ливень / The Rainstorm (6:32)
3. 2000 Лет / 2000 Years (6:54)
4. Цепочка Дней / A Trail Of Days (4:29)
5. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland, Ulster (4:05)
6. Вчерашний День / Yesterday (4:00)
7. День И Ночь / Day And Night (5:28)
8. Монолог / Monologue (4:38)
9. Марсианские Хроники I / Martian Chronicles, Pt I (8:57)
10. Возвращение II / Martian Chronicles, Pt II – The Return (3:55)
11. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues 'Caprice' (4:26)
12. Старинная Баллада / An Old Ballad (6:46)
13. Корабль / The Ship (6:14)
 
The title of the album is: Autograf 1 / Автограф 1980-82.
 
Your word?


Edited by Fassbinder - May 19 2007 at 11:39
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Points: 17628 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2007 at 14:12

Excellent work, Eugene Clap

good to see that we have a Cyrillic expert amongst us ....


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Points: 1377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2007 at 06:17
Nice one ....

This mess ...

1. Пристегните Ремни Безопасности / Fasten Seat Belts (instrumental) (3:18)
2. Ливень / The Rainstorm (6:32)
3. 2000 Лет / 2000 Years (6:54)
4. Цепочка Дней / A Trail Of Days (4:29)
5. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland, Ulster (4:05)
6. Вчерашний День / Yesterday (4:00)
7. День И Ночь / Day And Night (5:28)
8. Монолог / Monologue (4:38)
9. Марсианские Хроники I / Martian Chronicles, Pt I (8:57)
10. Возвращение II / Martian Chronicles, Pt II – The Return (3:55)
11. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues 'Caprice' (4:26)
12. Старинная Баллада / An Old Ballad (6:46)
13. Корабль / The Ship (6:14)

.... is now .....

1. Пристегните Ремни Безопасности / Fasten Seat Belts (instrumental) (3:18)
2. Ливень / The Rainstorm (6:32)
3. 2000 Лет / 2000 Years (6:54)
4. Цепочка Дней / A Trail Of Days (4:29)
5. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland, Ulster (4:05)
6. Вчерашний День / Yesterday (4:00)
7. День И Ночь / Day And Night (5:28)
8. Монолог / Monologue (4:38)
9. Марсианские Хроники I / Martian Chronicles, Pt I (8:57)
10. Возвращение II / Martian Chronicles, Pt II – The Return (3:55)
11. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues 'Caprice' (4:26)
12. Старинная Баллада / An Old Ballad (6:46)
13. Корабль / The Ship (6:14)
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2007 at 06:41
Continuation...
 
25 лет спустя. Юбилейный концерт / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert (CD)
 
CD 1: 45:23
1. Интро / Intro
2. Вчерашний день / The Day Before
3. Пристегните ремни безопасности / Clip Safety Belts
4. Ливень / Cloud-burst
5. Город / City
6. Монолог / Monologue
7. Странник / Pilgrim
8. Время, вперед / Time, Forward!
9. Реквием (памяти Джона Леннона) / Requiem (To The Memory of John Lennon)
CD 2: 58.50
1. Марсианские хроники / Martian Chronicles, Intro
2. 2000 лет / 2000 Years
3. Облака / Clouds
4. S.O.S
5. Камень / Stone
6. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland. Olster
7. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues “Caprice”
8. Головокружение / Dizziness
9. О, мой мальчик / Oh, My Boy
10. Корабль / Ship
11. Мир в себе / The World In Ourselves
Total Time: 104:13
 
 
25 лет спустя. Юбилейный концерт / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert (DVD)
 
1. Интро / Intro
2. Вчерашний день / The Day Before
3. Пристегните ремни безопасности / Clip Safety Belts
4. Ливень / Cloud-burst
5. Город / City
6. Монолог / Monologue
7. Странник / Pilgrim
8. Время, вперед / Time, Forward!
9. Реквием (памяти Джона Леннона) / Requiem (To The Memory of John Lennon)
10. Марсианские хроники / Martian Chronicles, Intro
11. 2000 лет / 2000 Years
12. Облака / Clouds
13. S.O.S
14. Камень / Stone
15. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland. Olster
16. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues “Caprice”
17. Головокружение / Dizziness
18. О, мой мальчик / Oh, My Boy
19. Корабль / Ship
20. Мир в себе / The World In Ourselves
Total Time: 118 min.
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2007 at 06:47

Autograph / Автограф

(Studio Album, 1986)
 
may be replaced by Autograph / Автограф
 
 
 
Also, the very name of the band at the bands page may be changed from the current

AUTOGRAPH (AVTOGRAF /AUTOGRAF) to Autograph (Автограф)



Edited by Fassbinder - May 21 2007 at 06:48
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2007 at 06:52
The track-list (alongside the title) of the album Kamenniy Kray may be re-written. It appears currently in transliterated form. I may post here the track-list in Russian (Cyrillic letters), with English translations in brackets. Do you want such a change?
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Points: 1377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2007 at 07:16
25 Years. jubilee Concert  ... both CD & DVD updated
Autograph album name updated

Band name .... shouldn't this now be Автограф (Autograph / Avtograf / Autograf) ??

Kamenniy Kray ... I guess it would be nice to have it too

Question .... it just occurs to me ... should the English translations be here in the album titles? [clause 1.2 Title to be in its original language, translations should not be included unless the album itself carries it or legibility is seriously impaired]

Edited by Joolz - May 21 2007 at 07:16
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2007 at 07:33
Originally posted by Joolz Joolz wrote:

Band name .... shouldn't this now be Автограф (Autograph / Avtograf / Autograf) ?? -- It might be, but: 1) why do we need three transliterated forms? Isn't the one form enough?; and 2) Then all the USSR and post-USSR bands' names should be updated to the following form: The name in Cyrillic letters (Transliterated form) (of course, for bands which have their names in Russian).

Kamenniy Kray ... I guess it would be nice to have it too -- Fine, I'll post it later...

Question .... it just occurs to me ... should the English translations be here in the album titles? [clause 1.2 Title to be in its original language, translations should not be included unless the album itself carries it or legibility is seriously impaired] -- Only if you want to know the meaning. Otherwise transliterations are quite enough. Compare with titles in other languages -- most of them aren't translated.
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2007 at 08:09
Here are two albums' track-lists with original titles in Russian and transliterations (transliterations are mine):
 
Каменный Край / Kamennyj Kraj
 
1. Город (Gorod)
2. О, Мой Мальчик (O, Moj Mal'chik)
3. Я Люблю (Ja L'ubl'u)
4. Странник (Strannik)
5. Казенный Демон (Kaz'ennyj Demon)
6. Колокол (Kolokol)
7. Мастер (Master)
8. Камень (Kamen')
9. Амур (Amur) (bonus track)
10. Мир В Себе (Mir V Sebe) (bonus track)
 
Autograph / Автограф
 
1. S.O.S.
2. Реквием (Памяти Джона Леннона) (Rekviem (Pam'ati Dzhona Lennona)
3. Истина (Istina)
4. Монолог (Monolog)
5. Нам Нужен Мир (Nam Nuzhen Mir)
 
 
 
Apart from that, I've added the website of the group. It is the unofficial one, but I suspect there might not be an official site at all, so, it's better than nothing.
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Points: 17628 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2007 at 14:56
Originally posted by Fassbinder Fassbinder wrote:

Continuation...
 
25 лет спустя. Юбилейный концерт / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert (CD)
 
CD 1: 45:23
1. Интро / Intro
2. Вчерашний день / The Day Before
3. Пристегните ремни безопасности / Clip Safety Belts
4. Ливень / Cloud-burst
5. Город / City
6. Монолог / Monologue
7. Странник / Pilgrim
8. Время, вперед / Time, Forward!
9. Реквием (памяти Джона Леннона) / Requiem (To The Memory of John Lennon)
CD 2: 58.50
1. Марсианские хроники / Martian Chronicles, Intro
2. 2000 лет / 2000 Years
3. Облака / Clouds
4. S.O.S
5. Камень / Stone
6. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland. Olster
7. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues “Caprice”
8. Головокружение / Dizziness
9. О, мой мальчик / Oh, My Boy
10. Корабль / Ship
11. Мир в себе / The World In Ourselves
Total Time: 104:13
 
 
25 лет спустя. Юбилейный концерт / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert (DVD)
 
1. Интро / Intro
2. Вчерашний день / The Day Before
3. Пристегните ремни безопасности / Clip Safety Belts
4. Ливень / Cloud-burst
5. Город / City
6. Монолог / Monologue
7. Странник / Pilgrim
8. Время, вперед / Time, Forward!
9. Реквием (памяти Джона Леннона) / Requiem (To The Memory of John Lennon)
10. Марсианские хроники / Martian Chronicles, Intro
11. 2000 лет / 2000 Years
12. Облака / Clouds
13. S.O.S
14. Камень / Stone
15. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland. Olster
16. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues “Caprice”
17. Головокружение / Dizziness
18. О, мой мальчик / Oh, My Boy
19. Корабль / Ship
20. Мир в себе / The World In Ourselves
Total Time: 118 min.



Great effort - but pay attention  Shocked

some translations to english are differing to other albums
f.e.

CD 1 - track 2 - The day before (Yesterday)
CD 1 - track 3 - Clip Safety Belts (Fasten Seat Belts)
CD 2 - track 6 - Ireland, Olster (Ireland, Ulster)


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