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Certif1ed 
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 Posted: April 28 2007 at 13:58 |
There's plenty of music that appears to transcend the fashionable styles of the time it was written in that somehow has a timeless quality to it.
I haven't really thought about the mechanics of it - so this is a good question for me - but there is definitely something that I believe could be quantified as a timeless quality - or more likely, a set of characteristics that make a piece of music sound more advanced than other music of its time.
"Love Without Sound" from "An Electric Storm" by White Noise is a great example - not the best, but without a doubt it sounds at least twenty years ahead of its time - so not exactly "timeless", but it's something demonstrable at least.
I've freaked out many people by playing it to them, then casually pointing out it was recorded in 1969.
It's only irrelevant if it's a quality you don't care about.
I care about all qualities of music, so it's not irrelevant to me - a certain degree of timelessness can make a piece of music more interesting to me.
However, I agree with the original position - that timelessness is not the be all and end all - sometimes the fact that a piece of music feels like it's self carbon-dating adds to its charm.
Edited by Certif1ed - April 28 2007 at 14:00
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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moonlapse
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 14:11 |
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I have to disagree with LC totally. Timelessness is important and reflects quality of music. Think of 1920s or 1930s music (blah) - then compare to great classical music written well before that.
A prog example might be I Talk to the Wind by KC - good song in its time but is hard to listen to now except on occasion, because it just sounds too much like the flower child/hippie movement of the 60s. Groovy man - not!
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The Lost Chord
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 17:09 |
 moonlapse wrote:
I have to disagree with LC totally. Timelessness is important and reflects quality of music. Think of 1920s or 1930s music (blah) - then compare to great classical music written well before that.
A prog example might be I Talk to the Wind by KC - good song in its time but is hard to listen to now except on occasion, because it just sounds too much like the flower child/hippie movement of the 60s. Groovy man - not! |
Well, thats pure opinion though, I think I Talk to the Wind is amazing, and I can listen to it everyday if I felt like it. I actually also read about the hippies and watch videos on them and things, just because it happened a long time ago doesnt mean I cant get a great feeling from thinking about it. Hell, knowing that 90% of the music i listen to is about peace and love and hippies and things makes it all the better, I love that stuff!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 18:58 |
moonlapse wrote:
I have to disagree with LC totally. Timelessness is important and reflects quality of music. Think of 1920s or 1930s music (blah) - then compare to great classical music written well before that.
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So you believe:
- Sinfonietta by Janaceck (1926)
- Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini (1934) or The Symphony N° 3 (1936) by Rachmaninoff
- Carmina Burana (Published in 1930) by Carl Orff.
- Romeo and Juliet Opus 64 or Piano Concerto N° 3 in C Major opus 26 by Serge Prokofiev write in 1935
- El Amor Brujo or El Sombrero de Tres Picos (1917 and 1921) by Manuel de Falla
Are "blah"????????
Wouldn't that be called taste and not a fact?
In music there are no dogmas, I choose a work by Rachmaninoff of Janaceck over Chopin because I don't like most of Chopin's works, but I wouldn't dare to qualifu his music as..."blah"
BTW: There's strictly no Classical music in 1920's or 1930's that genre only existed from 1750 to 1825 (More or less). But lets accept the extended use of a wrong term but making the mention before Cert kills us  .
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 28 2007 at 19:08
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
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Points: 1991
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 19:09 |
I Talk To The Wind hippie? where do you get that idea? nor the lyrics, nor in the musical ambient I find the hippieness ML. I love it because it's so clever in the chorus having the flute playing the major E scale (piano) while the background mostly did I-V loops, it creates such a great harmony... something I can't often find in pop music (even at that time).
In fact, it's my favourite song on that album
Edited by Chus - April 28 2007 at 19:13
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Jesus Gabriel
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moonlapse
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 19:48 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
BTW: There's strictly no Classical music in 1920's or 1930's that genre only existed from 1750 to 1825 |
Wasn't referring to classical in the 1920s/1930s, just music in general during that time compared to classical of the past.
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moonlapse
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 19:59 |
Chus wrote:
I Talk To The Wind hippie? where do you get that idea? nor the lyrics, nor in the musical ambient I find the hippieness ML. |
It's a nice song I will admit and I like it on occasion. But it is very reminiscent of the 60s, primarily in the musical ambience and I do not want to listen to it too much because of this as it just feels too creepy if I do. Give me something like Can's Monster Movie over this any time.
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moonlapse
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 20:04 |
The Lost Chord wrote:
Well, thats pure opinion though...
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Maybe. But then again isn't your original post?
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The Lost Chord
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 20:05 |
moonlapse wrote:
The Lost Chord wrote:
Well, thats pure opinion though...
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Maybe. But then again isn't your original post? |
Yeah but the key difference is you delibrately stated that yours was FACT.
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moonlapse
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 20:10 |
The Lost Chord wrote:
Yeah but the key difference is you delibrately stated that yours was FACT. |
Ummm...show me exactly where I said that?
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Sasquamo
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Posted: April 28 2007 at 22:32 |
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Moonlapse is right. When I think of 1920's and 30's music, I'm thinking of swing and dance bands, which was basically the result of jazz being hijacked by white people and turned into a near parody, dance music, until bebop came in to save the day.
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Chus
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 00:05 |
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You mean the Paul Whiteman era?. But Swing Jazz was started even before that, and was only danced by black people (before it became more famous)
Edited by Chus - April 29 2007 at 00:05
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Jesus Gabriel
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 02:17 |
Sasquamo wrote:
Moonlapse is right. When I think of 1920's and 30's music, I'm thinking of swing and dance bands, which was basically the result of jazz being hijacked by white people and turned into a near parody, dance music, until bebop came in to save the day. |
I don't know how can Swing or Hollywood musicals (Al Jolson painted as a black musician) be compared with Classical music, this would not be a matter of time, but a matter of species.
If you want to compare Jazz from the 30's, you can compare it with Satchmo, Duke Ellington or even Chick Corea or Jean Luc Pontuy, all are the same specie.
Please Minnie the Moocher (No matter how much I like it) resists a comparison with Beethoven's Sixth Symphony.
But you can't compare Swing with Beethoven because it's not a matter of time, it's a matter of two totally different universes, like comparing apples and spaceships, totally absurd.
If you want to compare Classics like earlier Beethoven or Haydn, you can make comparisons with Bach (Baroque), Wagner (Romantic or whatever he is), Janaceck (Modern), Rachmaninoff (Modern also), even Ginastera and Shostakovich and their peers....Then it would be a matter of time, because al are Orchestral Cult Composers (What we wrongly know as Clasical Musicians)
But at the end it would be reduced to a matter of taste, for me The Mighty Handful are the peak of Cult Orchestral music, but it's only a matter of taste.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 29 2007 at 02:21
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Sasquamo
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 10:01 |
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I guess what I'm trying to say is that the 20s and 30s dance bands do not age well, while much from the bebop era will last forever.
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heyitsthatguy
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 14:09 |
free jazz is "timeless"
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BroSpence
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:49 |
Sasquamo wrote:
Moonlapse is right. When I think of 1920's and 30's music, I'm thinking of swing and dance bands, which was basically the result of jazz being hijacked by white people and turned into a near parody, dance music, until bebop came in to save the day.
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Maybe you should stop thinking like that and remember that there was a lot of good jazz, blues, ragtime, and "classical" music in that time. Just like any time period. As has been pointed out by Ivan. You don't like Django Reinhardt? Duke Ellington? Scott Joplin? Woody Guthrie? Leadbelly? Son House? Robert Johnson? Louis Armstrong? Stravinski? Ravel? Strauss? and many many many others who were composing and performing amazing music before and some after the 20s & 30s? I mean think about this situation....no Woody Guthrie, no Bob Dylan. No Bob Dylan, no later Beatles albums. No later Beatles albums = lots of prog band don't exist among other things. Timelessness means nothing to me. If it pleases my ears and mind then its ok in my book.
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"Timelessness" is irrelevant.
