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Psychedelia View Drop Down
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Points: 238 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Creationism/Intelligent Design
    Posted: January 24 2007 at 15:40
   I have noticed a lot of talk about this religion based argument against evolution and was wondering how widespread it actually was. Do you know anyone who actually believes these things? or do you yourself? If so i would be interested to know why people believe something that has no basis as oppose to a proven scientific theory?
Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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Points: 5502 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 15:43
Originally posted by Psychedelia Psychedelia wrote:

   I have noticed a lot of talk about this religion based argument against evolution and was wondering how widespread it actually was. Do you know anyone who actually believes these things? or do you yourself? If so i would be interested to know why people believe something that has no basis as oppose to a proven scientific theory?


A proven scientific theory
     

I'm an Intelligent Creationist.
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Psychedelia View Drop Down
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Points: 238 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 15:46
   I'm unsure if your serious as i may have misread the laughing face but i it is proven. All scientists of any renown agree and there is much evidence for it to be found in fossils. As well as just anomolies like the fact that we have appendixes which have no purpose. 
   I would be interested to know why you believe in the Intelligent Design theory?


Edited by Psychedelia - January 24 2007 at 15:47
Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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Vompatti View Drop Down
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Points: 67452 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 15:50
What exactly does the intelligent design theory say?
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 15:51
Intelligent Design, as in an alternative to the theory of evolution? I don't believe in Intelligent Design (which, in my opinion is a pretty laughable idea and one that should not be taught in schools), but as far as I know Darwins theories haven't been proven... They appear to be correct, I admit, but I haven't heard of any solid, unquestionable proof that they are true. However, such proof could of course exist without me knowing of its existance. [Note that this isn't an argument against Darwin's ideas, just my thoughts on the subject]

Personally, I can't say I believe in anything in particular. At least I don't at the moment, perhaps I will later, or tomorrow. I'll be back then.
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 15:52
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

What exactly does the intelligent design theory say?

    
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
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Points: 7606 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 15:53
Originally posted by tuxon tuxon wrote:

I'm an Intelligent Creationist.


i'm a stupid evolutionist
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Points: 5502 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:07
Originally posted by Psychedelia Psychedelia wrote:

   I'm unsure if your serious as i may have misread the laughing face but i it is proven. All scientists of any renown agree and there is much evidence for it to be found in fossils. As well as just anomolies like the fact that we have appendixes which have no purpose. 
   I would be interested to know why you believe in the Intelligent Design theory?

    

a theory that's proven stops being a theory, it becomes factual, and for creationism and Intelligent Design, nor for the evolution theory can be found definitif proof.

Who told you that appendixes have no purpose, they are not a vital part of our body, and we wouldn't notice it if it wasn't there, but that doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose, we just haven't discovered the purpose yet.

Fossils do not counterproof creationism and certainly not intelligent design. The fossils can be created by God (or any other Deity with enough imagination) and placed at various places to confuse us humans, or sparkle our imagination. Or Intelligent design needed that evolutionary step to come to what the design had planned.

I do not believe in Creationism, or Intelligent design and i also don't believ in the 'proven' theory of Evolution.

Personally i think Man created the univers in the future, and the past hasn't happened yet, but will come to pass, from which current time and the future will develop.
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Points: 613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:08
Anyone who is in doubt of evolution should try reading a couple of Richard Dawkins books, they clear up a lot of misconceptions that people have about evolution, for example that it is not just complete chance.
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Points: 1383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:22
Originally posted by Psychedelia Psychedelia wrote:

   I have noticed a lot of talk about this religion based argument against evolution and was wondering how widespread it actually was. Do you know anyone who actually believes these things? or do you yourself? If so i would be interested to know why people believe something that has no basis as oppose to a proven scientific theory?
 
What do you mean by "believes these things"? What things are you refering to? Creationism and Intelligent Design?
 
Evolution and creationism or evolution and intelligent design are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts.
 
Just curious...Smile
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Kid-A View Drop Down
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Points: 613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:33

Yes that is true ^^, evolution does not conflict with creationism at all. Creationism just has a different starting point.
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Points: 1930 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:37
I believe both.
"The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa
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Logos View Drop Down
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Points: 2383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:40
Creationism as a science is a joke.
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Pnoom! View Drop Down
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Points: 4981 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:46
Originally posted by Psychedelia Psychedelia wrote:

   I'm unsure if your serious as i may have misread the laughing face but i it is proven. All scientists of any renown agree and there is much evidence for it to be found in fossils. As well as just anomolies like the fact that we have appendixes which have no purpose. 
   I would be interested to know why you believe in the Intelligent Design theory?
 
Actually, you are wrong.  I believe entirely in evolution, but the fact remains that it is not proven.  Even the world's most prominent Darwinist, Richard Dawkins, admits that evolution could be disproven if anyone could find one organ or part of the body that is irreducibly complex.
 
No scientific theories are proven, they are just backed by incredible amounts of evidence, such that it is highly unlikely that they are incorrect.
 
Intelligent Design isn't a theory, however.  A theory is a bunch of scientific hypotheses supported by mounds of evidence that are linked to form one large idea that explains something about our world.  However, intelligent design has little or no evidence backing it, and it also creates more questions than it answers.
 
Intelligent Design HYPOTHESIS tries to discount evolution by saying that some creator helped things along.  It acts on the assumption that life is too complex to have come about by chance*, and thus a supernatural being called God must have done the creating.  What it fails to explain, however, is how this supernatural being could have come about.  After all, if you're just going to claim that God has been there forever, you might as well say that the universe and life have been there forever, because you accomplish the same in both situations.
 
*This acts on the false assumption that evolution is a process of chance, when, in reality, it is the very antithesis of chance.
 
I am entirely against teaching intelligent design in schools, because it is not, in any way, an alternate theory to Evolution.  As I've said, it's not even a theory.  In addition, it explains nothing about our world.  It's entire argument is, in essence, "I don't understand evolution, so I don't believe in it," and then proceeds to choose something as far out as Planet GonG actually existing as an "alternative."  You might as well say that the earth rests on the backs of turtles.  There's about as much evidence in favor of the turtle hypothesis as there is for the intelligent design hypothesis.
 
All in all, intelligent design is a thinly veiled version of biblical creationism put forth by a bunch of crackpots who are holding on to unfounded beliefs.  I don't mind if you are religious, even though I'm not, but don't try to force religion on science.
 
Also, intelligent design's main "evidence" touted by its followers are gaps in the fossil record.  Well, just because we don't understand something now, doesn't mean we'll never understand it.  Honestly, we used to believe that the earth was flat, but now we know better.  I'm sorry if I insult any of you in what I will say next, but it needs saying.
 
I honestly cannot trust the intelligence of anyone who seriously believes that just because we don't know everything means that everything we do know is wrong.  This is sheer impatience and shows a supreme lack of the ability to approach problems with an open mind.  This belief is an incredible insult to all scientists, who make their livings discovering things that, according to proponents of this atrocious mindset, aren't true because we don't know them yet.
 
And all these people who fly in the face of evidence would be perfectly happy to accept science as valid if it proved that God existed, or that prayer worked, or that evolution was false.  This hypocrisy is disgusting, and intelligent design simply isn't a valid belief.  If any evidence were found that proved that evolution were false, if one irreducibly complex organ were discovered, I would be one of the first to abandon the belief... but only AFTER it was found that that organ truly was irreducibly complex.
 
I'll probably be asked to delete most of this post, which I am perfectly happy to do, but I strongly feel that this needs saying.
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Pnoom! View Drop Down
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Points: 4981 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:48
^^^
 
And since it's highly likely I'll be asked to delete a lot of that post, just read Richard Dawkins, who explains all I've said with more elegance and less anger than I've done.
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Points: 15535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:50
Isn't the eye irreducibly complex?
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Points: 15535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:51
Also please explain the difference between hypothesis and theory. Don't they have the same meaning?
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Pnoom! View Drop Down
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Points: 4981 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:51
No, it's not.
 
There are plenty of animals with eyes that have only parts of ours.  They cannot see as well, but half an eye truly is useful.  Some animals can only sense that there is light, some can see but not in color, and some can see in color.  There are varying degrees of how developed the eye is, and therefore it is not irreducibly complex.
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Points: 4981 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:53
Originally posted by progismylife progismylife wrote:

Also please explain the difference between hypothesis and theory. Don't they have the same meaning?
 
Hypothesis: an idea a scientist (or anyone) has that is testable scientifically but has not been backed by evidence.
 
Theory: a combination of a bunch of hypotheses backed by mounds of evidence that come together to form a greater explanation for some part of our universe.
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Points: 1383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2007 at 16:56
Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

Creationism as a science is a joke.
 
Who claims it's merely a science?
"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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