The Atheist Thread

progismylife wrote: stonebeard wrote: Is smoking marijuana right or wrong?      If it is illegal, it is wrong, if not smoke all you want.

I would suggest reading C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity. It is a good book that has a rational case for Christianity. If you don't believe me then go read it. Some of my arguments come from this book.

progismylife wrote: Chus wrote: Some people are raised that way, others convert.. and about organizing society well of course, it's logical that God wants to organise society by telling people not to harm each other... jews of the old testament believed that everything bad that happened to them was because God was smiting them... and high priests convinced people of that... but Jesus dared to call the high priests hypocrites and resumed all of the ten commandments into one... and proclaimed a message of mercy and love for thy neighbour.... the ipod thing is perhapsa bit irrelevant but miracles did happen around.. they still happen...      Jesus was calling the pharisees hypocrites. THey just happened to be the high priests. THey were taking the law and twisting it. Jesus didn't change the law he fulfilled it. THe high priests didn't convince the people that God was punishing them, God did. He told them there would be famines if they did not obey him and also that he would put them in captivity for wrong doing. The high priests were supposed to be the ones conducting the animal sacrifices and going into the holy places in the temple.

Of course he did.... but it was the High Priests that always said that everytime you got sick it was God who was punishing you... God did punish in extreme occasions (plagues of Egypt, Sodom and Gomorrah)
    

progismylife wrote: The Miracle wrote: That's a nice story but sorry it's a coincidence      It's a coincidence that someone gave my dad's friend 4 30GB iPods for free (when they were around $200-300 a piece) with the the exact thing my dad asked for and that friend in turn called my dad (hadn't talked in a year or so) and gave him one?!?! Besides "coincedences" don't exist, they come from God. Coincedence suggests that stuff happens at random and God is not in total control of all he created.

I think you should settle with the fact that it was most likely a coincidence... stranger things have happened, I even have a recent example: Me and my brother are (separately) shopping for christmas presents for our more or less dear sister. Both of us stumble upon Free Record Shops(record store chain), though in different malls. Now, we both happen to think that our sister would appreciate getting some DVDs for christmas, at the same time as we figure that the store has a nice offer, 4 DVDs for 300 NOK. The selection of DVDs, which go under this offer, is quite large, hundreds of titles to choose from. And so, ignorant of eachother's choice as christmas presents for our sister, we respectively put our gifts under the tree. Then the time draws near.... Our sister is about to open her present from my brother! She unwraps the paper, and uncovers 4 DVD movies; Scarface, Pulp Fiction, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Sin City. At this moment, I shout out "But that's the present I bought you!" and she replies "ehhh, no, this one's from your brother", and we realize both of us bought the exact same movies!  - Now, this may not be 100% comparable to the incident with your father and that iPod, but I just needed to show you that stranger things happen - without 'divine intervention' or whatever it can be called!

But, you sure seem like a firm believer, and I guess that's a good thing, having a strong faith in your God etc!

Can anyone explain morality to me

Logos wrote: mystic fred wrote: I don't believe atheism really exists - religion is ingrained in all of us from primeval times similar to fear of the dark and violence, we ALL believe in a God of some description, though not necessarily the ones presented before us by our elders and betters. That's a good argument against the existence of God right there, buddy.

I think most people's "violent" reaction against "god's" concept (which remain to define) is actually a reaction against religion. There's much confusion in all that.
You can believe in something without adhering to any religion or cult.
    

oliverstoned wrote: Logos wrote: mystic fred wrote: I don't believe atheism really exists - religion is ingrained in all of us from primeval times similar to fear of the dark and violence, we ALL believe in a God of some description, though not necessarily the ones presented before us by our elders and betters. That's a good argument against the existence of God right there, buddy. I think most people's "violent" reaction against "god's" concept (which remain to define) is actually a reaction against religion. There's much confusion in all that. You can believe in something without adhering to any religion or cult.

stonebeard wrote: progismylife wrote: stonebeard wrote: progismylife wrote: stonebeard wrote: Is smoking marijuana right or wrong?       If it is illegal, it is wrong, if not smoke all you want.   It is not illegal in Amsterdam, it is illegal here.  If it smoke it here, why is that wrong when I could smoke it in Amsterdam "legally." The laws are different. This is an absolute thing. Right and wrong are absolutes, and cannot be applied differently to different cultures. If one does, one makes morality subject to man's descision, and if you believe in God, that is a big no-no.       Why don't you just point out other conventions like rules of the road? It is illegal to drive on the left side of the road, but not the right, in the US but here it is illegal to drive on the right but not the left. It is a convention to try and keep society ordered. Amsterdam does not agree that pot is very harmful while other countries do.        But we're talking about morality here.

But smoking isn't morality. It has nothing to do with the well being of your soul.
    

progismylife wrote: stonebeard wrote: progismylife wrote: stonebeard wrote: progismylife wrote: stonebeard wrote: Is smoking marijuana right or wrong?       If it is illegal, it is wrong, if not smoke all you want.   It is not illegal in Amsterdam, it is illegal here.  If it smoke it here, why is that wrong when I could smoke it in Amsterdam "legally." The laws are different. This is an absolute thing. Right and wrong are absolutes, and cannot be applied differently to different cultures. If one does, one makes morality subject to man's descision, and if you believe in God, that is a big no-no.       Why don't you just point out other conventions like rules of the road? It is illegal to drive on the left side of the road, but not the right, in the US but here it is illegal to drive on the right but not the left. It is a convention to try and keep society ordered. Amsterdam does not agree that pot is very harmful while other countries do.        But we're talking about morality here. But smoking isn't morality. It has nothing to do with the well being of your soul.

Yes, exactly.  For example, that one part where Jesus says something along the lines of "Caesar's picture is on that coin, so give to Caesar what it his."  I think he was saying, among other things, to be loyal to your country.