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The T 
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 Topic: Yes Tormato... underrated?
Posted: November 15 2006 at 22:14 |
I've been listening to Tormato (and all Yes albums bar Generator and Talk) and I just can't understand why it's so bashed as it is.... For me it's truly an underrated album... sure it's no Close to the edge, relayer or fragile.... but, what's the big deal? What i don't understand is that people that criticize this one praise Drama.... Drama was the turning point in Yes career, no more textures, interesting bass playing (octaves and roots only), while Tormato still showcases some of Yes' best features, if only less often.... Tormato's songs are not too poppy, they still have good bass playing and guitars, and some of them are quite good. Better than almost all Going for the one's except Awaken.... so my question or subject is, what is that people find in Tormato that makes them treat it so badly? May it be the recording? That is, for sure, a bad element in the album.... But it's that enough to treat it as an inferior album? Or is it just a coincidence in personal tastes? If this is the reason, off course there could be no argument, I'm no one to say there are people with superior taste.... but if is just a coincidence that so many people dislike Tormato, what is that element that causes such a coincidence?
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tuxon
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Posted: November 15 2006 at 22:23 |
That's the nature of people, if some people start saying something is bad, others will follow, if enough people follow all will start believing it's true and keep feeding the illusion.
that's why having an entirely own opinion, unbiased by other information than your own views and perception is so important.
don't believe what generally is considered to be true by the masses, for they are generally wrong and misguided.
for the record i like Tormato also, one of their best albums, but don't take my word for it.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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The Miracle
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Joined: May 29 2005
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Posted: November 15 2006 at 22:25 |
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It is a little. Worst pre-drama album but still 3 stars IMO.
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asuma
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Posted: November 15 2006 at 22:31 |
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I agree with you that it is an under-rated album. It is one of my person Yes favourites. The songs have a certain pop edge that is dark and slightly different. It's a good thing.
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*Remember all advice given by Asuma is for entertainment purposes only. Asuma is not a licensed medical doctor, psychologist, or counselor and he does not play one on TV.*
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ClemofNazareth
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Posted: November 15 2006 at 22:36 |
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I recently spent two months listening to nothing but Yes, going through all the albums that I have in chronological order and playing each several times. Then wrote a review for each of them.
All I can say about Tormato is that is wasn't a horrible album for the time in which it was released, but taken in the context of the entire Yes catalog, it pales in comparison to almost everything that came before it. The arrangements are probably up-to-par for that lineup of the band, but the production is rushed, and the performances seem largely uninspired. My overall impression is that the band was punching a ticket for the record label in between tours, and that there was quite a bit of dissention in the ranks at the time. It's just not their best work by a long shot.
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
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mickstafa
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Joined: March 24 2005
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Posted: November 15 2006 at 23:48 |
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I love Tormato. Unfortunately, we tend to rate things against each other, and prog rock is no exception. Tormato is a daring and fun album, with plenty of creativity and progressiveness.
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Australian
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Joined: June 13 2006
Location: Australia
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Points: 3278
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 01:05 |
Tormato is excellent in my opinion! 4 stars.
I blame Huguesy for its low rating. 
Edited by Australian - November 16 2006 at 01:10
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Ricochet
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 01:10 |
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I listened to the album many times, influenced by no one and "in no liking groups', and sincerely think Tormato is a class mistake by Yes. Weak substance music and a low tempo that, in contrast with the vital music of the classic years and by the relation with the next to come exciting Drama, doesn't worth much.
I've reviewed. Grab some ideas out of there, if you are interested.
I know the pop light Yes is catalogued as worse, and some albums from there have indeed no equivalent; but Tormato disappointed in a period of strong reflection and stands no chance by its individual quality.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 01:34 |
Tormato has several problems IMO, Rick Wakeman's choice of keyboards was terrible, sound almost as if he was playing a cheap Casio.
Songs like Circus of Heaven, Arriving UFO and Don't Kill the Whale give a new meaning to the word Cheesy.
Release Release and the boring Onwards are out of place.
Only Madrigal is decent (Not great).
Rabin era was worst, but at least that wasn't really Yes, the real band was ABWH, but in Tormato they had the full band except Bruford and they mesed it up.
Iván
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Peter
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 02:16 |
No -- it really is a sub-standard album, in the opinion of myself and other like-minded, sincere Yes fans. 
We are not lying or childishly trying to manipulate ratings -- we're merely calling it as we hear it.
I bought it when it came out, BTW, and as a longterm Yes fan, I wanted and tried to like it. I did not "follow" anyone in my negative opinion.
If any album is markedly less popular, it is almost certainly because markedly less people enjoy listening to it -- not because some sinister cabal or conspiracy has decided to manipulate the gullible, unthinking masses. 
Yes albums sell well among Yes fans, and then those fans make up their own minds. That many feel much the same about Tormato is no more surprising than the fact that many feel much the same about CTTE or Relayer. All bands have their less popular albums, and albums are less popular because more people find it inferior, than otherwise.
If you think Tormato is good, then I'm happy for you!  My not liking it should not bother you or lessen your pleasure, and my explanations of why I don't like it won't mean much to you anyway.
Edited by Peter Rideout - November 16 2006 at 02:36
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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smithers
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Joined: October 30 2006
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 02:25 |
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cool album and better than relayer
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pero
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 02:39 |
 tuxon wrote:
That's the nature of people, if some people start saying something is bad, others will follow, if enough people follow all will start believing it's true and keep feeding the illusion.
that's why having an entirely own opinion, unbiased by other information than your own views and perception is so important.
don't believe what generally is considered to be true by the masses, for they are generally wrong and misguided.
for the record i like Tormato also, one of their best albums, but don't take my word for it. |
Very nice opservation Tuxon  .
By the way I will stick to Relayer, Fragile, Close to the edge and Tales from a topographic oceans.
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 02:41 |
The T wrote:
I've been listening to Tormato (and all Yes albums bar Generator and Talk) and I just can't understand why it's so bashed as it is.... For me it's truly an underrated album... sure it's no Close to the edge, relayer or fragile.... but, what's the big deal? What i don't understand is that people that criticize this one praise Drama.... Drama was the turning point in Yes career, no more textures, interesting bass playing (octaves and roots only), while Tormato still showcases some of Yes' best features, if only less often.... Tormato's songs are not too poppy, they still have good bass playing and guitars, and some of them are quite good. Better than almost all Going for the one's except Awaken.... so my question or subject is, what is that people find in Tormato that makes them treat it so badly? May it be the recording? That is, for sure, a bad element in the album.... But it's that enough to treat it as an inferior album? Or is it just a coincidence in personal tastes? If this is the reason, off course there could be no argument, I'm no one to say there are people with superior taste.... but if is just a coincidence that so many people dislike Tormato, what is that element that causes such a coincidence? |
There seems to be a snobby attitude to anything that contains shorter songs.Personally I like Tormato and play it a lot more than Going for The One.Alan White's drumming on Tormato seems a lot harder which suits my taste.
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fuxi
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Joined: March 08 2006
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 03:14 |
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I'll go along with Ivan Melgar M on this one. Parts of TORMATO are so cheesy it makes me feel sick. If you watch any documentaries on Yes, the members of the band themselves can be heard explaining that this was a rather unhappy period for them.
DRAMA, on the other hand, sounds very catchy. I didn't like it at first (felt prejudiced against the members of Buggles etc.) but believe you me, it grew on me!
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Peter
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 03:47 |
tuxon wrote:
That's the nature of people, if some people start saying something is bad, others will follow, if enough people follow all will start believing it's true and keep feeding the illusion.feeding the illusion.
that's why having an entirely own opinion, unbiased by other information than your own views and perception is so important.
don't believe what generally is considered to be true by the masses, for they are generally wrong and misguided.
for the record i like Tormato also, one of their best albums, but don't take my word for it. |
So, are confirmed Yes fans like myself and Ivan part of the "wrong and misguided masses," or are we somehow manipulating those unthinking, sheep-like masses? Why would we do that, and how?
There must be some poorly-rated albums here that you also don't care for (but someone out there undoubtably likes them). Have you been manipulated or led by the nose to your opinion? Is your opinion not truly your own, or an illusion? Are you deluded, "wrong and misguided?"
Sorry, my friend Tux, but I find your position on this one to be presented rather arrogantly. Basically, you are saying that the majority of Yes fans (and that's who bought/buys Tormato, and reviewed the album, after all) are less intelligent, and/or less independent-minded, that the enlighted few (like you, presumably) who like the album, aren't you?
Since when have Yes fans been lumped in with "the masses" and mere victims of the music media or industry, anyway? 
You could just say something like "I really like this album, and I don't understand why it's not more popular." Don't presume to judge all of us who have a different opinion of it with frankly offensive, condescending words like "underrated," "wrong" and "misguided."
Please.
Edited by Peter Rideout - November 16 2006 at 03:52
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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M. B. Zapelini
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Joined: June 21 2005
Location: Brazil
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 05:50 |
In my opinion, there are people who seems to feel insulted when somebody bashes an album they love. Why? I don't know; if I were one of the musicians who recorded the album, I would be insulted.
As a listener to an album, I'll always have my opinion, good or bad, no matter how many people say I'm wrong. About "Tormato", I don't like it (IMHO, it's crap!!), and it is the only 70's Yes album I never bought on CD. There's only one song in this album that I like - "On the Silent Wings of Freedom" - and this particular song is featured at the box set "YesYears", which I own, making "Tormato" entirely disposable to me.
A final word: do what I do when I like an album that most people does not like - put "Tormato" into your CD or MP3 player or your turntable, sit down and enjoy it. Forget about my opinion - it doesn't matter at all.
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"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL
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A B Negative
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 05:54 |
Tormato is a more consistent album than either Relayer (I only like Gates of Delirium) or Going for the One (patchy but with a couple of high points).
I could never get in to Drama so I can't see Tormato as a low point in Yes' career. That accolade goes to the 20-odd years starting from 90125!
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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lovecraft
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 05:55 |
Poor songs, melodically weak, Wakemans tone is awful - the cliche about him using 50 notes where 1 would be adequate must stem primarily from this album - pretty much everything about this album sucks right down to the cover. I have bought it twice and tried to like it but it has never stayed under my roof for more than a couple of months - I really tried but it was just no good.
For me, Tormato is a stinker
Now, Drama - now thats more like it - truly the last hurrah!
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Tales
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 05:55 |
It's a great album! Far ahead of it's time and some people don't like change!Enjoy it as I and countless others do
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Tony R
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 05:56 |
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I too bought the album day of release. I was really looking forward to it after the sublime "Going For The one".
It is an unmitigated disaster,in my opinion, and signalled the end of a once great band. They should have left it there but instead carried on releasing more and more utter drivel for over 20 years.
Like the champion boxer who cant retire and has to get pummelled into oblivion until he gets the message...
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Yes Tormato... underrated?
