Who says Black Metal singers suck?

sleeper wrote: Me thinks someone took the bait

Hook, line and stinker....

Edited by Peter Rideout - September 05 2006 at 18:07

tardis wrote: Peter Rideout wrote: How about singing out one's arse?  (I got a mental image of that one...)

 Hmmm... What to call my first album? "Greatest Sh*ts?"

Peter Rideout wrote: sleeper wrote: Me thinks someone took the bait Hook, line and stinker....   But you didn't use this little guy: Wah!      Anyway, I still say that stuff is FUNNY, in a painful kind of way. Assuming someone much younger than me, still -- how can anyone take vocals like that seriously? Does it just relect and reinforce a very bleak, angry state of mind (is it cathartic, perhaps), or do kids only get into that stuff to shock and piss off their parents? Is it a case of "it feels good when I stop"?   Also seriously, if each generation comes up with art to rebel against and shock the previous one, then what, in gawd's name, will the kids of peole who like that stuff come up with? Is my "vomiting into a mic" concept really that far fetched? How about singing out one's arse?    Wtih art, can we never fairly say 'No, sorry, that's total CRAP"? (We say such things about lots of pop here all the time.)   Debate, folks: can art objectively be "bad?" What if it finds no audience? Does it need one?

The thing about black metal (and extreme metal in general for that matter) is that it's an extremely esoteric style of music.  The vocal style will seem outrageous to those who don't "get it", but for those few who can appreciate the style, we wouldn't want them to sing any other way.  Extreme metal vocals are entirely inclined towards the style of music being played, I don't view it necessarily as a childish expression of anger or hatred in any way, and would even go so far as to say that I find them genuinely beautiful on certain occasions (early Ulver and Borknagar probably being the best examples).  I had very much the same reaction as you did when I first heard them Peter, but I couldn't possibly see many of the bands I appreciate using any other type of vocals, it simply wouldn't fit them as well.  It doesn't surprise me that you react this way to them, you're DEFINITELY not alone, but to those of us who actually do listen to this sort of thing there's FAR more to them than just angry, noisy bellowing.

Peter Rideout wrote: Is my "vomiting into a mic" concept really that far fetched?

Bryan wrote: Peter Rideout wrote: sleeper wrote: Me thinks someone took the bait Hook, line and stinker....   But you didn't use this little guy: Wah!      Anyway, I still say that stuff is FUNNY, in a painful kind of way. Assuming someone much younger than me, still -- how can anyone take vocals like that seriously? Does it just relect and reinforce a very bleak, angry state of mind (is it cathartic, perhaps), or do kids only get into that stuff to shock and piss off their parents? Is it a case of "it feels good when I stop"?   Also seriously, if each generation comes up with art to rebel against and shock the previous one, then what, in gawd's name, will the kids of peole who like that stuff come up with? Is my "vomiting into a mic" concept really that far fetched? How about singing out one's arse?    Wtih art, can we never fairly say 'No, sorry, that's total CRAP"? (We say such things about lots of pop here all the time.)   Debate, folks: can art objectively be "bad?" What if it finds no audience? Does it need one? The thing about black metal (and extreme metal in general for that matter) is that it's an extremely esoteric style of music.  The vocal style will seem outrageous to those who don't "get it", but for those few who can appreciate the style, we wouldn't want them to sing any other way.  Extreme metal vocals are entirely inclined towards the style of music being played, I don't view it necessarily as a childish expression of anger or hatred in any way, and would even go so far as to say that I find them genuinely beautiful on certain occasions (early Ulver and Borknagar probably being the best examples).  I had very much the same reaction as you did when I first heard them Peter, but I couldn't possibly see many of the bands I appreciate using any other type of vocals, it simply wouldn't fit them as well.  It doesn't surprise me that you react this way to them, you're DEFINITELY not alone, but to those of us who actually do listen to this sort of thing there's FAR more to them than just angry, noisy bellowing.

On that note...

GROWWWWLLLAARRRAAARRRSSHHSHSRRAAAASAAATAAANNNRAAAARRAAAAABLOOOODDDDDDCCCCCUUUTTINGRAAASRSSSHHHHHHH

(ducks and hides)

My favorite black metal singer has to be Shagrath from Dimmu Borgir.  Love the way he growls and his variety of growls.  His best album is probably Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia.  Excellent album!!!

Peter Rideout wrote: Logos wrote: The way Peter is constantly attacking "Extreme" metal and the way he keeps on insisting that just "angry kids" listen to that stuff is just ridiculous, childish, insulting and, may I add, regressive. ***************************************************************************  (Peter responds): Well, I could argue with some of your wording here (I don't think I am "insisting" that just angry kids listen to the stuff, but wondering if that is so), but I'll stop that, and just respond to the gist of your words:   Yes, I've bashed metal too much. It was fun -- at least for me -- for a time, but it has embroiled me in too many unnecessary fights here. I've offended too many good people, and for that, I apologise. Obviously, metal fans are no more likely to be angry or stupid than fans of any other genre. (Perhaps the only generalization we could make MIGHT be that "extreme" (your word -- no disrespect intended) metal fans are younger than classic prog fans, ON AVERAGE. It's a fairly new musical form,whereas the prog I most love tends to be a 70s thing -- the music of my youth.)   Again, sorry for the  tiresome, heavy-handed blanket "bashing" -- enough! Look for an upcoming long-planned post from me -- working title "Prog Metal and I" in the near future. It will explain how (thanks to folks here, especially our Bryan) my thinking has favourably evolved -- (progressed?) on this issue. Stay tuned! **************************************************************************** Okay, you don't like it. Fine. We get it. We already got that a long time ago. But please, stop acting like you're looking at this 100% objectively and have the ability and the right to judge what is "Good art" and what is not. *****************************************************************   Okay, acknowledged, I was not objective. Mea culpa! Honestly, I never thought or meant to imply that I had that "right" or "ability." If you re-read my post, you'll see that I throw out the question for discussion: Is there "bad" art? Can that "bad" status be objectively ascertained? Does art need an audience? I posed the question(s) precisely because I was coming around to a more moderate, tolerant point of view, and because I am inclined to think -- as you might agree -- that the answer to all three is NO. I don't mean to set myself up as an expert on art or music (I'm just a fan) but merely wanted a calm, reasoned discussion of what, to me, are interesting questions about the nature, diversity and "purpose" of art. *******************************************************************   Remember, in the end, it's just music we are fighting over here (but we're hopefully not fighting any more)! Let's remember that, and keep this in perspective -- I'm not the antichrist, and neither, perhaps was that young man with the (to me) very unusual singing style!   I do think and care about other's feelings, my behaviour and how I am perceived, and I acknowledge when I am wrong, or when I needlessly offend others. I did not feel too good about that original post, upon walking home, and I apologise for my seeming disrespect and "baiting" of metal fans here once more.   I intend to do much less of it -- if any!   As Maani would say: PEACE!

Peter Rideout wrote: Car and plane crashes set to a beat?