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toolis

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Topic: Queen?Prog Related?
Posted: August 09 2006 at 12:19

i strongly suggest that you put Queen under the Symphonic Prog genre...

chopper

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 07:39

Why? There was a lot of debate about Queen when they were first added and I think they're in the correct genre. How much of Queen's output can be classified as symphonic prog?

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 08:22

None, even Queen II is not really symphonic as a whole. But I still think that it's more progressive than many of the albums in the symphonic prog genre ...

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toolis

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 02:54

ok, i won't argue with what kind of prog Queen are... but prog related? IMHO, from Queen II to Jazz, their music could only be characterized as PROGRESSIVE ROCK...

progression? tech? innovation? which adjective that we use for any 70's prog rock monster doesn't fit?

Cygnus X-2 View Drop Down

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 02:55

So then why symphonic?

Raff

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 02:58

toolis wrote:

i strongly suggest that you put Queen under the Symphonic Prog genre...

Hold on a sec! If there's someone who can put anything under the Symph Prog genre, it's us of the Symph Prog team (aka the Three dread Horsemen). The boss (aka Ivan the Terrible) should be back here by the beginning of next week, and you are most welcome to try and suggest it to him. I think he might leave you in one piece, though I wouldn't count too much on that.... LOL

toolis

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 03:04

Cygnus X-2 wrote:

So then why symphonic?

i said ok about the 'symphonic' thing... but not prog related... i don't know who decides about this... maybe, i'm wrong, but to me Queen feel like prog...any prog...

chopper

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 06:30

toolis wrote:

ok, i won't argue with what kind of prog Queen are... but prog related? IMHO, from Queen II to Jazz, their music could only be characterized as PROGRESSIVE ROCK...

progression? tech? innovation? which adjective that we use for any 70's prog rock monster doesn't fit?

I don't know Queen II which seems to be the album people quote as their most prog but I don't see anything in their other albums that qualify as prog. They may be innovative and ANATO has progressive elements in some songs but can you seriously say that "Jazz" is progressive rock? Is Fat Bottomed Girls prog?

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 06:33

chopper wrote:

No, but Mustapha. Smile

You should really try to get a copy of Queen II ... the only way to find out why we consider it to be progressive is listening to it!

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chopper

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 07:35

OK Mike, I'll start saving my pennies.

I do have a copy of Jazz though and nobody will ever convince me that it's progressive rock.

toolis

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 07:35

is 'progressive' a different approach of rock or just a stiff term, anyway?

Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 09:57

chopper wrote:

OK Mike, I'll start saving my pennies.

I do have a copy of Jazz though and nobody will ever convince me that it's progressive rock.

It is not prog. None of the Queen album can be called prog, just songs here and there.

The last good Queen album is Jazz.

I am in the process of writing reviews of 10 CC albums , which I consider Queen's closest rivals and I draw up lots of similarities with their respective careers/discographies until 81, when Mercury did his coming out

>>> the first three 10CC albums reviews are in. Check out next week for the following three.

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 09:59

Ivan is back... I can only imagine the fit he would have, should he get wind of the proposal of moving Queen to Symphonic! LOL

chopper

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Posted: August 11 2006 at 11:21

Can I suggest a glass of water and a quiet lie down in a darkened room?

toolis

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Posted: August 13 2006 at 01:58

The main characteristics of Symphonic are the ones that defined all Progressive Rock: (There's nothing 100% new under the sun) which among others are:

Mixture of elements from different genres.
Complex time signatures.
Lush keyboards.
Explorative and intelligent lyrics, in some cases close to fantasy literature, Sci Fi and even political issues.
Non commercial approach
Longer format of songs

In this specific case the main characteristic is the influence of Classical music....

i rest my case....

Edited by toolis - August 13 2006 at 01:59

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: August 13 2006 at 02:19

Queen Symphonic?????

They have some relation with Prog as they have with Blues, Pop and Classic Rock, they are outstanding but they never released a Symphonic track, not even Bohemian Rhapsody which is a Rock song with some stravaganzas.

Their music is great, maybe too good for Prog Related, but they are not Symphonic that's why I don't want The Who to be added, I don't want to see them as related.

Iván

Philéas

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Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:50

Queen had many Prog tendencies in their music between their eponymous debut and A Day at the Races, though not enough to be included in any other category than Prog Related. There's nothing symphonic about them really, if there is one "real" Prog sub genre they would fit into it would be Art Rock, but even that is quite a long stretch.

I'm not even sure that Queen had enough relations to the Progressive Rock movement to be included as Prog Related. Until anyone proves otherwise, I'd like to see them out all together. Don't get me wrong though, I really love them, but they don't really belong here.

Edited by Philéas - August 13 2006 at 09:50

Sacred 22

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Posted: August 13 2006 at 17:05

Philéas wrote:

Queen had many Prog tendencies in their music between their eponymous debut and A Day at the Races, though not enough to be included in any other category than Prog Related. There's nothing symphonic about them really, if there is one "real" Prog sub genre they would fit into it would be Art Rock, but even that is quite a long stretch.

I'm not even sure that Queen had enough relations to the Progressive Rock movement to be included as Prog Related. Until anyone proves otherwise, I'd like to see them out all together. Don't get me wrong though, I really love them, but they don't really belong here.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: August 13 2006 at 18:06

toolis wrote:

The main characteristics of Symphonic are the ones that defined all Progressive Rock: (There's nothing 100% new under the sun) which among others are:

Mixture of elements from different genres: I don't think so, they were eclectic but most of their material is pure Rock with soime Orchestral or vocal arrangements, but the main structure was basically Rock, they also played diffeent genres like Blues and even some Ragtime but rarely mixed them, the most you can say it's that they were versatile.

Complex time signatures. In a few cases but not common in them either.

Lush keyboards For God's sake, they rarely used piano and until Jazz (I believe) they included proudly a phrase "No Synths used in this album".
Explorative and intelligent lyrics, in some cases close to fantasy literature, Sci Fi and even political issues. Intelligent yes but excplorative no way, mostly Love songs with good arrangements.
Non commercial approach Oh man, Queen is the commercial band for excelence, their approach was totally commercial, good music but you can't close your eyes.
Longer format of songs Hey man, they have an average of 10 songs per album in LP format (40 to 45 minutes) , their average was 4 minutes at the most being that they used to have one longer song

In this specific case the main characteristic is the influence of Classical music.... : Using Orchestral arrangements or Operatic vocal extravaganzas is not Classical, the structure of Genesis songs was pure Rock and in cases as S0omebody to Love just Blues.

i rest my case....

Sorry, you don't have a case.

Iván

toolis

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Posted: August 14 2006 at 03:22

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

toolis wrote:

The main characteristics of Symphonic are the ones that defined all Progressive Rock: (There's nothing 100% new under the sun) which among others are: Mixture of elements from different genres: I don't think so, they were eclectic but most of their material is pure Rock with soime Orchestral or vocal arrangements, but the main structure was basically Rock, they also played diffeent genres like Blues and even some Ragtime but rarely mixed them, the most you can say it's that they were versatile.

Complex time signatures. In a few cases but not common in them either.

Lush keyboards For God's sake, they rarely used piano and until Jazz (I believe) they included proudly a phrase "No Synths used in this album". Explorative and intelligent lyrics, in some cases close to fantasy literature, Sci Fi and even political issues. Intelligent yes but excplorative no way, mostly Love songs with good arrangements.Non commercial approach Oh man, Queen is the commercial band for excelence, their approach was totally commercial, good music but you can't close your eyes.Longer format of songs Hey man, they have an average of 10 songs per album in LP format (40 to 45 minutes) , their average was 4 minutes at the most being that they used to have one longer songIn this specific case the main characteristic is the influence of Classical music.... : Using Orchestral arrangements or Operatic vocal extravaganzas is not Classical, the structure of Genesis songs was pure Rock and in cases as S0omebody to Love just Blues.i rest my case....

Sorry, you don't have a case.

Iván

so the problem is that Queen instead of writing epics (irrelevant to being prog or not) they presented all these elements of different genres spread to 10 tracks instead of three even though the total time of their albums is the same to all other 'prog bands' and that instead of keyboards had a looot of piano (you can't argue with that...) playing classical themes and you fail to recognise the 'anti-commercial' Queen of the '73-'79 period but insist on the 80's when basically many bands that are considered prog in here went pop...

THIS IS LAME...

sorry you can't argue my case...