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TheProgtologist 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
 Posted: May 18 2006 at 10:47 |
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Am I the only person who thinks a bunch of American-hating fanatics climbed into four planes,flew two into the WC,one into the Pentagon and failed to crash the other into a viable target because the hostages rebelled and made the aircraft crash?????????
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 10:55 |
No I agree with you.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 10:56 |
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Not at all Jody, if anything, it is us "conpiracy theories" that are more in the minority.
Of course, you have a right to an opinion, as we all do and as you are aware, we have no conclusive proof. So your views are also valid. Edited by Geck0 - May 18 2006 at 10:56 |
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Firepuck
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: February 28 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 657 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 10:56 |
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^
I'm with you Jody.
Conspiracy theorists live in a scary world.
Seeing as Bush has been fighting public apathy for the war in Iraq and his poll numbers have steadily declined over the last several years one would think another 'staged' attack would have already happened.
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Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks."
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 10:57 |
I've had a look and there's some very interesting facts there that I'd never heard of. I don't believe that the FBI would have let the attacks happen. What I believe is that no-one took the threat seriously. If you had told me before September 11th what would happen, I wouldn't have believed that anyone could seriously consider doing such a thing. Certainly no-one could considering doing such a terrible thing to their own country.
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 11:01 |
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Talking about conspiracy theories, I think their are such theories for everything. I have been reading about people who don't think they landed on the moon. One of these moon conspiracy theorists annoyed Buzz Aldrin so much a few years ago that he went out and punched the guy.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 11:05 |
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But Bob, how about the London bombings? They were by English born muslims, so in this instance, it is their own country.
Also, what about the alleged goings on by Saddam Hussein? Again, his own country and his own people. Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Chechenya (sp.)? A quick look at history down the years is all that is needed to debunk your theory. Therefore, it is quite possibly - but (to many) highly unlikely - for the American government or the F.B.I., to do harm to their own country. |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 11:06 |
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The planes flying into the towers looked like passenger jets to me. I thought the film footage of those was clear enough.
I dont buy all that remote control stuff. I still think the whole episode stinks, though. I would say IF, there was somekind of conspiracy - apart from the one touted as the official line - it's more likely that they knew it was going to happen and let it. Didn't Condie Rice change her travel plans that morning, and Dick Cheney? Ariel Sharon also was alleged to have cancelled a plan trip to the US on 9/10. I remember the BBC and Fox both reported that huge amounts of shares in (American Airlines?) were sold the previous day. The story disapeared off the BBC website rather promptly, but I'm sure there is something still out there in cyberspace relating to that story. I'll try and find something from a 'mainstream' news source. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 11:08 |
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The mention of shares is mentioned on the video that MikeEnRegalia posted.
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator Joined: January 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 11:16 |
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All:
Of all the links to alternative theory sites that have been posted - and I have checked out all of them - the one that will answer (in its own way, of course) many of the issues and questions that the "non-conspiracy theorists" have is the one posted by MikeEnRegalia:
It is an hour and 20 minutes long, and is well worth it, as it goes through all three of the incidents - WTC (including #7), Pentagon and Shanksville - and provides quite a bit of information, including basic science and engineering, that many of you are still asking about. Obviously, the site has its own "spin," but I believe it to be the best of the "alternative theory" sites posted thus far. Those who are skeptical of the alternative theory claims should take the time to see this and then come back to the thread and comment on it. I'm sure many of you will simply guffaw, and that's okay, if that's the way you feel. But I think others of you may see and hear things that will raise doubts about your sticking to the "official story."
Peace. Edited by maani - May 18 2006 at 11:18 |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 11:18 |
It's covered in this essay, I found on a Google search.. Complicity? The share dealing prior to the attacks does lay to rest the idea of remote control 'non commercial' aircraft, and missiles hitting the Pentagon, though. If those major share holders were 'in the know' surely they'd know that UA and AA planes were not ultimately going to be used. Just a thought. Edited by Blacksword - May 18 2006 at 11:21 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 11:23 |
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Well said Maani. I watched this video yesterday and it just increased my already doubtful mind, so thank you for posting it here.
Some of the evidence shown in this video is pretty difficult (to me anyhow) to debunk. Especially in relation to flight AA77 and the size of the hole in the Pentagon. A lot of the rest is open to conjecture, but that particular evidence is self-explanatory, in my opinion. The evidence used is genuine, using footage, as well as stills from the site at the time, that was reported in news bulletins. |
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005 Location: Entropia Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 12:09 |
Not at all, I dont doubt that two planes were abducted and flown into the WTC at all, but I am completely unconvinced about the attacks on the Pentagon and the Pensilvania (sp?) incident, theres just to many inconsistencies surrounding them for me to accept the US governments official reports.
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator Joined: January 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 14:01 |
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By the way, there is a really incredible book that is must reading on this issue. It is called "The Terror Timeline," by Paul Thompson. What is amazing about the book is that Thompson uses only articles and photographs from mainstream media sources - i.e., those that the majority of Americans accept as "legitimate," whether liberal or conservative (i.e., network, cable, etc., but not "alternative publications") - and using only those sources is able to show that if we look carefully at those sources, even they ultimately debunk the "official story." A good example (which is also in the video link provided by MikeEnRegalia, which I re-posted) is the number of news anchors, firefighters, employees of companies at the WTC, and even passers-by who spoke of "multiple explosions" in the twin towers, suggesting a controlled demolition.
Two other books I highly recommend are by David Ray Griffin, a theologian and 9/11 truth movement leader. His first book on this issue - "The New Pearl Harbor" - is an important book. And his second - "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions" - is a careful parsing of the "official story."
Peace.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21596 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 14:20 |
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BTW: Dalezilla initially posted the link to the video in another thread two months ago.
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cucacola54
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2005 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 1729 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 14:45 |
Sorry to hear that
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Most listened albums last week
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 16:16 |
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I was living in northern Virginia and working in Washington DC in Sept.
2001. I was driving into work when the Pentagon was
attacked. If anyone knows Washington, I was on the beltway at the
southern end of the city, driving across the Wilson bridge. Radio
reports were coming in that Washington was now under attack, as New
York had been. I didn't believe it until I looked up the river
and saw the awful plume of black smoke rising...
You all are presenting various pieces of evidence....I'm usually a highly rational person, but I'm going to disagree with all these conspiracies for one reason - I just can't believe. Our lives changed forever on Sept. 11 - at least those like me fared better than poor Jody who lost family, or of course all the victims who lost their lives that day. But I can easily separate my emotional state, my mindset, into pre- and post-9/11 frames; I'll never have that pre-9/11 life back. Our government has problems and I know a lot of the world is angry and upset with America now for our actions overseas, but I just simply can't believe that our government would do this to us, to shatter all our lives to some degree in this way. I'm sorry that I can't offer more rational arguments but anyway I had to say this. Again Jody I'm very sorry for your loss. |
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator Joined: January 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 17:05 |
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NaturalScience: Your reaction is perfectly understandable. After all, who of us was not affected "in the moment" - psycho-emotionally traumatized by the immensity of what we were witnessing? But that is the entire point: it is because we were traumatized "in the moment" that we were unable to really look at what was happening - to "coldly" analyze what we were seeing, hearing, etc. There are those who were able to do so - who immediately suspected a controlled demolition of the WTC, and did not "buy" that a 757 hit the Pentagon - but they are few and far between. Instead, it took time for those of us in the 9/11 truth movement to "get over" the initial "shock and awe" of that moment and begin really looking at the "evidence" provided in the "official story," and seeing the discrepancies, ambiguities, lies, etc.
What occurred on 9/11 is like the magician who uses "misdirection" to make you look at anything except what he is really doing. It is "smoke and mirrors" and "blue screen technology" that make you believe that what you are seeing is "real." It is the very traumatization created by such acts that is used to "hide" the "strings" being manipulated by the puppeteers.
Your feelings are perfectly understandable - and, indeed, normal. But it is important to get beyond those feelings and get back to a rational, coldly analytical frame of mind so that you can start to see the strings, the blue screen, the misdirection. It will hurt - alot - to do so, both because the traumatization was so severe and because what you will find will almost certainly make you angry at your leaders. But it is also extremely healthy - not just "politically," but also psycho-emotionally - to allow a very supportable "righteous indignance" and anger to replace a cynically-induced trauma.
Peace.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 17:18 |
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I don't believe the conspiracy theorists.
This is why: There is simply too much at risk for the government to do this. What's the possibility of a missile hitting the Pentagon, and no other civilian recording device capturing it!?!?! Let me tell you, if this was the case, and people found out, I am confident, most sectors of the government would be overthrown, Bush's head (and maybe even Clinton's, depending on how far back this went) would roll( literally) and thousands of high-ranking officials would be executed. Why risk all that?
Perhaps I don't want to believe the theories for other reasons. In fact, I know this to be true. If it turned out to be so, that the governmet actualy killed 3000+ American in order to get involved in two wars, then... *
* Edited for fear of the government charging me with a crime under the Patriot act. Edited by stonebeard - May 18 2006 at 17:21 |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: May 18 2006 at 17:21 |
well there weren't any civilian devices caught the plane hitting The Pentagon either.No one's going to tell me that Military Intelligence dont foot the bill for all local CCTV set ups. |
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9/11 Pentagon Video finally released...
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TheProgtologist wrote: