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Jim Garten 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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 Posted: March 08 2006 at 03:23 |
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I think the bottom line is we allow our leaders to lie to us precisely because we are too lazy to get off our arses and try to change society for the better ourselves.
It is much easier to elect a representative, allow him to lie through his teeth at us (whilst keeping the country going on a day to day basis - something many people seem to forget they do), then complain bitterly when power corrupts, than it is to actually stand for public office, attempt to resist the many temptations, lobbyists, focus groups, businessmen and moneymen and maintain personal integrity.
Just a thought.
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 12:14 |
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Agreed.
"The wicked leader is he who the people despise. The
good leader is he who the people revere. The great leader is he who the
people say, 'We did it ourselves.'"
- Lao Tzu
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Pure Brilliance:
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Peace Frog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 994
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 13:42 |
 Rust wrote:
Peace Frog wrote:
We let our leaders lie to us because the only ones who care that they're lying refuse to vote, and even if they did vote it wouldn't make a difference because we'd still have leaders that would lie to us anyway. There's no escape and we can't do anything about it. |
Well, we can always go to the Phillipines and claim one of those million islands, and be the leader there. I would call the land, Progressia! It would always have honest leaders, like me.  
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Sweet! Can I be vice-president?
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progaeopteryx
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Refrigerator
Status: Offline
Points: 3613
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Posted: March 09 2006 at 20:19 |
Empathy wrote:
Ah, right. Sorry to digress. I suppose Dubya's lies are old hat to me
at this point. What's infuriating to me isn't so much the lies
themselves but the arrogance and brazen defiance when confronted with
them. It's like he no longer feels he even has to make an effort to
disguise his agenda anymore.
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He doesn't have to because he's not running for office after this term. Even his own party is distancing themselves from him. It is going to take the Democrats years, maybe decades, to clean up the mess of this one man. It may take a generation to repair this country's image in the eyes of the world. As to Katrina (which is where this thread started), Bush should be impeached. He should've been impeached for Iraq. What bothers me even more, is that Scientific American published an article about the grave state of New Orleans if a hurricane hit it way back in October 2001. But of course, Bush doesn't listen to scientists.
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: March 09 2006 at 20:51 |
timothy leary wrote:
I think Jimmy Carter was a fairly truthful American president. Unfortunately, he is remembered for the recession during his presidency. George, on the other hand, is the son of a liar. If Oliver North didn`t take the fall, George Sr. probably would have been impeached. |
Agreed. Jimmy Carter was a great president who had a great sense of human rights and morality. The media tried to make him look bad, but he really was a great leader and imo showed what American Democracy was about.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: March 10 2006 at 05:16 |
Bob Greece wrote:
Politicians are only human and they have to put a positive shine on everything to keep their jobs. They don't have all the information and they're always being recorded so sometimes they're bound to say things that are daft. I'm sure I'd say a lot of daft things if I were a politician.
The truth is that people who put any value on honesty will never get to be politicians and they don't want to be either. The funny thing is that given the choice between Bush or Blair telling lies and the Dalai Lama telling the truth, the people will always fall for Bush and Blair. Why oh why or why?  I think it's because people don't mind lying as long as they don't get financially any worse off from it.
Honesty in politics really doesn't pay off. If George Bush said "sorry I made a mistake about hurricane Katrina" or if Blair said "I exagerated the case for Iraq and I'm sorry" then I don't think they'd last very long in office. People expect to be told that everything is OK even when we know that they're not. Anybody who tells things like they really are will be out of office before you can say "Monica Lewinsky".
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Couldn't agree more, Bob. 
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: March 10 2006 at 05:23 |
Jim Garten wrote:
I think the bottom line is we allow our leaders to lie to us precisely because we are too lazy to get off our arses and try to change society for the better ourselves.
It is much easier to elect a representative, allow him to lie through his teeth at us (whilst keeping the country going on a day to day basis - something many people seem to forget they do), then complain bitterly when power corrupts, than it is to actually stand for public office, attempt to resist the many temptations, lobbyists, focus groups, businessmen and moneymen and maintain personal integrity.
Just a thought. |
It's a great thought JIm, but you cant ignore lobbyists, focus groups, moneymen media etc. Industry and the media run our political circus. You would have to change the entire political culture in the country. You try and run a country without putting the moneymen first, and playing the media, you wont be in office very long. Step too far out of line and you could be 'dealt with' very severely.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: March 10 2006 at 09:39 |
Ah, finally someone as jaded and disillusioned as me!
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Pure Brilliance:
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
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Posted: March 10 2006 at 09:58 |
Empathy wrote:
Ah, finally someone as jaded and disillusioned as me! |
Yeah join the club. Cynics anonymous.
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3047
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Posted: March 11 2006 at 20:14 |
The Wizard wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
I think Jimmy Carter was a fairly truthful American president. Unfortunately, he is remembered for the recession during his presidency. George, on the other hand, is the son of a liar. If Oliver North didn`t take the fall, George Sr. probably would have been impeached. |
Agreed. Jimmy Carter was a great president who had a great sense of human rights and morality. The media tried to make him look bad, but he really was a great leader and imo showed what American Democracy was about.
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Jimmy Carter was a terrible, indecisive president. I am democrat and I still think he was bad. He was so indecisive and had no political acumen whatsoever. (of course, he was the best thing we'd get till Clinton)
I'd take the Nixon/Ford mess over Carter any day. The man couldnt even get a DEMOCRATIC congress to pass his agenda.
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edible_buddha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 195
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Posted: March 11 2006 at 20:42 |
Blacksword wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
I think the bottom line is we allow our leaders to lie to us precisely because we are too lazy to get off our arses and try to change society for the better ourselves.
It is much easier to elect a representative, allow him to lie through his teeth at us (whilst keeping the country going on a day to day basis - something many people seem to forget they do), then complain bitterly when power corrupts, than it is to actually stand for public office, attempt to resist the many temptations, lobbyists, focus groups, businessmen and moneymen and maintain personal integrity.
Just a thought. |
It's a great thought JIm, but you cant ignore lobbyists, focus groups, moneymen media etc. Industry and the media run our political circus. You would have to change the entire political culture in the country. You try and run a country without putting the moneymen first, and playing the media, you wont be in office very long. Step too far out of line and you could be 'dealt with' very severely.
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Id love to say "dont buy the paper or listen to the news". Unfortunately, ppl have already done that, and they havent been able to convince others that it is not exactly how a person can c the world. I trying to say that just not doing something dosent work... You need mass and continuous uprising for that to happen, and ppl are simply too apathetic for that.
Why not... Destroy capitalism..... And become a socialist 
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I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: March 13 2006 at 03:24 |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Why do we let our leaders lie to us?
