Rock The Classics: Edward Macan (OUP)

I think to some degree there is a little truth to both your first proposal is that a lot of the people who bought YEs and ELP were the ones buying Beatles and Stones in the 60's and bought U2 and Poice records in the 80's and maybe Nirvana and RHC Peppers record in the 90's. They were not specific prog fans - they just bought whatever was thrown at them> and there was a time for prog . I think the industry itself pushed the last remaining prog bands into a safer AOR mode away from the more adventuresome music that preceded it in the decade and largely took back artistic content control from the artists. They did so by not signing progressive bands.  Many in the United States died on the vine. On top of it it was hard to find.  While English bands were heavily marketed in the States, Italian, French and German bands were not>>> Actually you have a good point, but the US had a special point in helping the UK groups since this was not only English speaking countries but also very close allies dating from the WW II days. >>>

I don't think it is fair to say that people who listened to prog then moved to U2 and the Police because they bought whatever was thrown at them.  Prog got really boring after 1979 and the top Brit bands were trying to simplify their writing for the power pop audience.  But Talking Heads, The Police, Joe Jackson, The Clash  and others were doing some interesting music.  I purchased it because I loved it and it was good.  I would have gone on buying prog records but the truth is these bands got out of touch with their audience.  This is what punk was saying about rock in the 1970s.  It had been founded as a way to connect with the audience; but now it was just as corporate as any other commercial music; it was not reaching the youth of the time.  Fripp had said that this is why he broke up KC circa 1975.  KC was one of the more exciting acts of the 1980s but they were influenced by Talking heads and had Adrian Belew. 

A lot of it had to do with the conglomeration of the record industry during the early 1970s.  Sudddenly, control of the recording industry was centralized with monopolies owning radio stations and labels.  They could also force stations to  play easily marketable tracks or else pull the advertising for the soup company that was part of the conglomerate and that advertised on a specific station.  I once heard an promotion person say that the reason why music was marketed to people under 25 was that they were 33 percent of the market. She did not think to ask if maybe people 26-55 were anther 33% and over 55 the other 33%.   In addition, playing a ten of twenty minute track by one artist once is equal in time to hearing a Madonna track four or five times, so the idea that the tracks were too long was just bogus.

Garion81 wrote:   Well I can see that.  So that means there is a large gap between the late 70's and the early 90's that needs to be addressed. So did prog stall because we as consumers stopped buying it or because it was no longer being marketed?  That is to me the prime reason why it failed to go on. I think to some degree there is a little truth to both your first proposal is that a lot of the people who bought YEs and ELP were the ones buying Beatles and Stones in the 60's and bought U2 and Poice records in the 80's and maybe Nirvana and RHC Peppers record in the 90's. They were not specific prog fans - they just bought whatever was thrown at them> and there was a time for prog . I think the industry itself pushed the last remaining prog bands into a safer AOR mode away from the more adventuresome music that preceded it in the decade and largely took back artistic content control from the artists. They did so by not signing progressive bands.  Many in the United States died on the vine. On top of it it was hard to find.  While English bands were heavily marketed in the States, Italian, French and German bands were not>>> Actually you have a good point, but the US had a special point in helping the UK groups since this was not only English speaking countries but also very close allies dating from the WW II days. Plus the fact that French, Italian and Germans bands also had to have green cards to work in the States, therefore had to be  granted the permission to work (and promote those records to be ditributed widely)  by some obscure administration powers - remember thast this was the cold war too and that many of those French Italian and German groups had rather very leftist views, which I am sure did not sit well with the US administrations. UK groups were not really political (at least in their music)- and may have done wisely to avoid the subject. All these albums could be purchased on import if your local record chain supported that and if you could afford that.In Toronto, you had special Import record stores or had to deal withsecond hand dealers to import them>> not cheap either. By 1977 there was little or no airplay for any of this music to heard depending on where you were in the US.

Do we really need Macan to keep the debate or can we actually do it by ourselves?

danbo wrote: Garion81 wrote: danbo wrote: I found it to study the culture of the day more than a study of Prog. His hypothesis dealt with middle-class kids merging the classical music learned at school and church and the 60's psychedelia exploding from London and the USA. It's just a small piece of the overall puzzle. I'd like to see an update from Macan with the burgeoning underground prog revolution. The internet prog era...      Concur totally on this and on getting an update.  I thought he did identify the social areas in the Untied States that received prog in the 70's, and still to this day keep prog alive.  Midwest towns like in PA, Ohio, and yes Kansas and Missouri as the Northeast and the urban areas of the West Coast supported prog bands well. Still with the advent of the internet prog really is branching out and I would like to see his take on that. Actually, that was the point I felt he left hanging. The Prog era survived mainly on the wallets of the USA kids who embraced the music and allowed bands to flourish and expand on their craft. ELP would never have produced the excessive BSS without US dollars. Their stardom was both the means and the ends of the mega-dollar prog market.

Well I can see that.  So that means there is a large gap between the late 70's and the early 90's that needs to be addressed. So did prog stall because we as consumers stopped buying it or because it was no longer being marketed?  I think to some degree there is a little truth to both. I think the industry itself pushed the last remaining prog bands into a safer AOR mode away from the more adventuresome music that preceded it in the decade and largely took back artistic content control from the artists. They did so by not signing progressive bands.  Many in the United States died on the vine. On top of it it was hard to find.  While English bands were heavily marketed in the States Italian, French and German bands were not. All these albums could be purchased on import if your local record chain supported that and if you could afford that. By 1977 there was little or no airplay for any of this music to heard depending on where you were in the US.

To get back to it the original thought I had  the funny thing is that the prog markets in the US that were huge in the 70's are the ones still supporting it in the new century.  If you follow most tour patterns of the bands that do full tours you will see them hit the Large cities of the northeast, across Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Sometimes Detroit and Milwaukee, Chicago and the to the West coast playing Seattle, sometimes Portland, San Francisco bay area and Somewhere in the greater LA area. Atlanta and Florida are trying to break into the pattern as they have many transplants moving to those areas.

If memory serves, he is currently finishing a book about ELP, the Endless Enigma or something like that. Maybe there will be some useful updates within addressing the prog issues following the "internet progboom". Personally I think the book is excellent. For the record, ,he only dissects four landmark prog pieces (CTTE. Tarkus, WYWH and Firth of Fifth).

Saludos

Real