| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
oliverstoned 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
|
 Posted: September 06 2005 at 08:39 |
 Trotsky wrote:
Don't quite know what brought this on, although I know hdfisch has brought it up in the past ... my two cents, yes there are kids going through here, and yes PA should not be seen to be promoting drug culture ...
but sometimes discussion of it is unavoidable ... and I don't know where the censorship should begin (or how necessary it is) ... I just did 7 Hawkwind reviews ... and although Reefer Madness and LSD weren't among the songs covered, the topic was never far away ... I just mentioned "stoner jams" a lot ... is that offensive? ... should that be removed?
barbs wrote:
If you have a child who is 14 or 15, girl or boy and they are interested in music and using this site to broaden their understanding, or maybe just wanting to comm with someone, is it really Ok that adults, because we are so LIBERATED and FREE to do whatever we want, PROMOTE how good it is to take certain substances that are illegal, toxic and clincially proven to be damaging to the health of young people. |
Just a small point on this one barbs, as a parent of three kids aged 8 and below, I understand where you're coming from, but it's our duty to educate our kids as much as we can, way before they learn about it from the internet (or anywhere else for that matter) ... |
|
 |
oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
|
Posted: September 06 2005 at 08:43 |
|
...if someone said "whiskey is the best drug" or "beer is my fav drug", it will shock nobody.
...if someone says "pot is the best drug", some here will consider it to be immoral, altough alcohol is considered more dangerous (classified as "hard drugs" than pot "soft drug" by the prohibitive gouvernment-
Nice paradox btw.).
|
|
philippe
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 14 2004
Location: noosphere
Status: Offline
Points: 3597
|
Posted: September 06 2005 at 09:28 |
|
I've worked on an article a few months ago about the current use of drugs in central & south America. I arrived at the "opening" conclusion that the way to consume hallucinogenic plants is by far different that ours. Over there every use of plants, mushrooms is strictly codified and resonates as a mystical experience with higher divinites and sacred kinships. I think that for us these drugs procure no "trancendental" visions, just an other state of consciousness. The reason is that we haven't got a structured imaginary to receive dreamings interpretations. We can only live "vibrations", "flip" but not passing the frontieer of the travel to communicate directly with the cosmos and the nature.
Edited by philippe
|
|
|
|
oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
|
Posted: September 06 2005 at 10:25 |
|
Hmmm...maybe we are freer than these people to experiment those level of counscious without words, representations, belief...
"but not passing the frontieer of the travel to communicate directly with the cosmos and the nature."
Silence is the answer. no need of words, systems to communicate with nature. Just need to be therr, silencious, with vegetal's help.
|
|
Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7003
|
Posted: September 08 2005 at 17:32 |
Reading The Naked Lunch at 15 didn't make me into a heroin addict, and I managed to read De Quincey without beating a path to my nearest opium den.
I am an alcoholic (dry for over 10 years now), but I wouldn't blame seeing the Lost Weekend, or listening to Tom Waits or the Pogues.
Nobody is going to turn to drugs just because a few people (myself included) discuss them in either a frivolous or serious manner - the worst that could happen to a youngster as a result of reading this site is that they might get the impression that theatre is spelled theater.
|
|
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
|
|
Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20252
|
Posted: September 09 2005 at 03:26 |
Syzygy wrote:
Reading The Naked Lunch at 15 didn't make me into a heroin addict, and I managed to read De Quincey without beating a path to my nearest opium den.
I am an alcoholic (dry for over 10 years now), but I wouldn't blame seeing the Lost Weekend, or listening to Tom Waits or the Pogues.
Nobody is going to turn to drugs just because a few people (myself included) discuss them in either a frivolous or serious manner - the worst that could happen to a youngster as a result of reading this site is that they might get the impression that theatre is spelled theater.
|
Sensible words from a sensible man......
But that does leave drinking the wine bottle by myself we dine out!
|
|
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
Borealis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 599
|
Posted: September 10 2005 at 15:07 |
Syzygy wrote:
the worst that could happen to a youngster as a result of reading this site is that they might get the impression that theatre is spelled theater. |
Nice one
|
|
Vive le Québec libre!...
|
|
Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7003
|
Posted: September 12 2005 at 16:56 |
Sean Trane wrote:
[QUOTE=Syzygy]
But that does leave drinking the wine bottle by myself we dine out!
|
The kind of sacrifice only a true friend would make!
|
|
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
|
|
goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
|
Posted: September 12 2005 at 17:35 |
Ty1020 wrote:
barbs wrote:
If you have a child who is 14 or 15, girl or boy and they are interested in music and using this site to broaden their understanding, or maybe just wanting to comm with someone, is it really Ok that adults, because we are so LIBERATED and FREE to do whatever we want, PROMOTE how good it is to take certain substances that are illegal, toxic and clincially proven to be damaging to the health of young people.
|
Just thought I'd comment on this, as I'm 15 and can hopefully offer some insight. I obviously can't speak for everyone my age, but I think it's safe to say that the majority of teenagers are already aware of both the positive and negative effects of drugs and have already made a decision about whether or not they want to use them. I don't think anybody is going to come here, read a pro-pot post (that's a tongue-twister :P) and start smoking pot based solely on the indirect recommendation of a total stranger over the internet. It should be safe to assume that most people who possess the mental capacity to use the internet should also be able to make their own intelligent decisions pertaining to matters of their own health such as this.
The pro-drug messages I've been exposed to here, elswhere on the internet, and in real life have not changed my personal decision to not use drugs in any way, and I can only assume (and hope) that most other people are not so easily influenced. If people want to somke/drink/whatever, I'm fine with that, and I respect their right to talk about it freely. I understand your concern and can definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't really think there's anything to worry about, because everyone here is capable of making their own decisions and should already be fully educated and aware of the effects of perusing illegal drugs.
|
It's not about people who've already decided not to take drugs (or to take drugs), it's people who think they might want to but don't really know anything about it that can be more easily influenced.
|
|
Hangedman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 03 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1261
|
Posted: September 12 2005 at 19:11 |
Trotsky wrote:
This is true, Hangedman ... but you see my views on drugs are not the norm ... I grew up with parents who wouldn't have known (and still don't know) the difference between heroin and marijuana ... They just told me to avoid drugs as it would ruin my life, and I obeyed them ... until I was 17 ...
After six years of pretty heavy usage (an average of once every 2-3 days, I would have said), I stopped and haven't returned (Sept 30 will mark 9 years of going without) ... I know the positives and negatives of the drug scene (lost two friends who moved from using to dealing) ... and I'm hoping that my experiences will give my children a more balanced view ... I will tell them honestly about the positives too (while emphasing that most of my experiences weren't while I was living in my own country ... which has the death penalty for possession of a minimal amount of marijuana)
But it's a tough job ... and in the end most kids go through phases when they are not interested in listening to their parents, and really need to make their own mistakes to learn from ...
In fact, my biggest problem is that the oldest of my three kids was born with serious heart defects (doing well now after four operations) and I want him to live the "cleanest" life possible ...
this of course, doesn't fit in with the philosophy my wife and I agreed on before the kids came which is ... "We're advising you of the dangers, but if you insist on experimenting, We'd rather you did it at home, so there's less danger of getting caught, etc"
|
Your philosophy is a good one id say, and your additional concerns about your oldest son is merited i would say. Things seem to be slightly different as to the situation on lets say marijuana in our respective countries, and its a bigger deal to get caught with it from what youve said. It sounds to me your doing everything in your power to encourage your kids to make the right choice, and thats the best a parent can do 
|
|
Borealis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 599
|
Posted: September 12 2005 at 23:21 |
goose wrote:
Ty1020 wrote:
|
Just thought I'd comment on this, as I'm 15 and can hopefully offer some insight. I obviously can't speak for everyone my age, but I think it's safe to say that the majority of teenagers are already aware of both the positive and negative effects of drugs and have already made a decision about whether or not they want to use them. I don't think anybody is going to come here, read a pro-pot post (that's a tongue-twister :P) and start smoking pot based solely on the indirect recommendation of a total stranger over the internet. It should be safe to assume that most people who possess the mental capacity to use the internet should also be able to make their own intelligent decisions pertaining to matters of their own health such as this. The pro-drug messages I've been exposed to here, elswhere on the internet, and in real life have not changed my personal decision to not use drugs in any way, and I can only assume (and hope) that most other people are not so easily influenced. If people want to somke/drink/whatever, I'm fine with that, and I respect their right to talk about it freely. I understand your concern and can definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't really think there's anything to worry about, because everyone here is capable of making their own decisions and should already be fully educated and aware of the effects of perusing illegal drugs. |
It's not about people who've already decided not to take drugs (or to take drugs), it's people who think they might want to but don't really know anything about it that can be more easily influenced.
[/QUOTE]
If people are that influencial, they will do drugs anyway. If they'd be influenced by something as stupid as a music forum, imagine what would happen in their real life at school.
|
|
Vive le Québec libre!...
|
|
oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
|
Posted: September 23 2005 at 10:37 |
|
Moreover, for youth (but not only), forbidden things stimulates transgression.
For example, the alcohol prohibition in USA, and the fact that young people in Netherlands consume less MJ than youth in France...
|
|
James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
|
Posted: October 02 2005 at 16:52 |
I don't agree with oliverstoned often, so when we do agree there must be a very good reason. 
Anyone old enough to appreciate prog will be exposed to many more
troubling things than a bunch of us old stoners discussing the chemical
inspirations in 'head music'. Of course there's always irresponsible
things said, but I don't think anybody is going to embark on a damaging
drug addiction due to ProgArchives. If anything, the members' personal
experiences could help form a more reasonable outlook on the subject
than one gets from the predjudiced, prohibitive, or dismissive
propaganda.
|
|
|
|
The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
|
Posted: April 08 2008 at 21:51 |
I think a lot of the music itself that's discussed on this site is already promoting of drug use as it is....
You can't deny this: psychedelic drugs and prog more so than not are closely related. Censoring discussions on drugs is a great way to damage discussions on prog rock.
|
|
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
|
Posted: April 08 2008 at 22:10 |
The Wizard wrote:
I think a lot of the music itself that's discussed on this site is already promoting of drug use as it is....
You can't deny this: psychedelic drugs and prog more so than not are closely related. Censoring discussions on drugs is a great way to damage discussions on prog rock. |
Promoting the use od ILLEGAL substtances could bring problems to Prog Archives.
I believe human mind doesn't nees of drugs to enhance the inspiration, by the contrary the examples of lives wasted (Gary Thain, David Byron, John Entwistle, Keith Moon, Syd Barrett, Jim Morrison, etc) are enough to avoid it.
Lots of artists didn't used drugs, because their own mind and imagination was enough for them.
And just to finish, I don't believe any drug enhances your intelligence, by the contrary destroy neurones, but even if it was positive (what I disagree with) we are here to talk about the music, not about what an artist uses in his private life, that's their problem, outr problem is to respect the laws and not promote illegal activities.
Iván
|
|
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: April 09 2008 at 07:02 |
|
"And all I see is little dots
Some are smeared and some are spots
Feels like a murder but that's alright
Somebody said there's too much light
Pull down the shade and it's alright
It'll be over in a minute or two."
Drugs, Talking Heads
"Drugs are bad, m'kay?"
Mr. Mackie
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Drugs
