I Will Not Go Quietly!

stonebeard wrote: this thread has become a battlefield of pointless insults between Tony R and MtS and Doctor. it has drifted here and there and has discussed almost every problem with our culture without either side making a real definitive point. why doesn't everybody just pour some cool water down their pants and chill out?

Chill out? What's to chill SB? Whilst responding to Mark's posts,I've been joking with Gdub and Snowy,debating Queen in two forum areas and clarifying a point about Alex Lifeson and Geddy Lee.And getting extremely pissed off with the way that Mark has blundered into an alliance with that insidious toad "The Doctor"

You dont mean "chill out" you mean "stop debating this issue before things get out of hand"

marktheshark wrote: Oh Jeez! Here we go again! Another classic case of baby-boomers and there'fores whining about some sacrificial curtailing of freedoms. Talk about a bunch of spoiled rotten brats! Not that it matters that we had curfews and intern camps in the 40s! Oh, of course, I'm sorry, we can't compare the terrorists to the Nazis. That would make them look like the bad guys! So what do we do? Let's compare Bush to Hitler! After all, him and Blair caused the London bombing, not the terrorists! Heaven forbid to blame the terrorists!

Lest we forget where you stand on freedom!!!

Spoilt by being accorded freedoms?

Come again?

marktheshark wrote: My real problem with this thread is that freedom infringement in this country has been going on a long time before now. Starting back to the early 60s when a kid in school all of sudden doesn't have the freedom to say or not say a prayer in school. Now this is not the result of what the people in this country want

So,what you are saying is that sometimes it is right to curtail freedom (the times when you agree with it) and sometimes it is wrong (when you dont agree with it).

marktheshark wrote: You're doing almost the same the thing terrorists are doing. Sure, you're not going around killing people of course. But you're quick to jump on anybody who's different culturally. Especially Americans now!

I have no argument with "Americans",where did I say that?

I dont even believe there is much difference between Brits and Yanks culturally at all.

Why is it that everytime someone criticises a facet of American life they almost become an enemy of the state? Let's be frank,we criticise your President and nearly 50% of Americans must have those same criticisms,because they sure as hell didnt vote for him.

This whole thread is about Human Rights and Civil Liberties,but specific to decisions taken in your country to reduce freedoms.

As for the "terrorist" bit,if we had someone from the Moslem side who was spouting bollocks about the value of life and religious bigotry,they'd get it in the neck too.Big time.

Tony R wrote: The Doctor wrote: So tell me.  What are your gripes about the way whites treat blacks in America?  Why do you think it is o.k. for blacks to be angry and hate whites, but not the other way around?  Why do blacks need special treatment?  Are they not capable of taking care of themselves?  Are they not intelligent human beings who are capable of rational thought and behavior? By the way, I never, ever said or intended to imply that they as a race were not.  What are your solutions for racial harmony in the U.S.?  And I am not asking these questions to be sarcastic, I am generally interested in what you have to say on the matter, that is, if you can refrain from being insulting in the process. You just do not get it do you? Those questions are irrelevent to my issues with you! My objections are with the sentiment behind what you are expressing.The underlying motives for the way you write what you write.I have no wish to sit here whilst you play Devil's Advocate to yourself.

The underlying motive for the way I write what I write is that I am expressing my opinion on political matters that affect me and others in this country.  The problem is I don't think you have any real arguments at all.  You have chosen a side, the far left, and anything that is against the views of the far left causes a knee jerk reaction in you to attack and insult the source of those opposing views.  In all of the posts that I have seen of yours, I have not once seen a well thought out and well-written commentary on anything.  It's generally just attacks on others, and when someone questions you to lay your views out on the table, you have nothing to say, except those questions are irrelevant. 

Even though I don't usually agree with them, at least Maani and James have actual things to say about relevant issues and put in some time and thought in expressing them.  You just sit back and attack whatever isn't to the far left without providing any clue as to what your opinions are.  I suspect that is because you do not really have any opinions, except to follow along in the far left camp, maybe because your parents are to the far left, or your friends are on the far left, or your girlfriend or whatever.  And you really have no opinions, beliefs, facts or anything else to back up your position.

Tony R wrote: The Doctor wrote: marktheshark wrote: The Doctor wrote: Tony R wrote: The Doctor wrote: Tony R wrote: [QUOTE=marktheshark] [QUOTE=Tony R] If you are so sure that you are right,why dont you say the things you really want to say about the "blackman's lot" in modern America.... Yeah right! The Guidelines should prevent your kind of crypto-racist outpourings. Respect your culture? You haven't got any mate! Hit a bulls-eye,did I? Let's get back to arguing about music............ O.k  Tony, you are an obnoxious loudmouth who needs to grow up and stop attacking people just because they do not share your ultra-liberal viewpoint.  Ultra-liberal...me!!!!!! Obnoxious loudmouth? You'll have to try harder than that! I've been kicked,punched,bitten (!),beaten with the butt of a shotgun,hit on the head with a whip,spat on,stamped on and kicked by horses,chased by hounds,threatened by every chinless wonder in the English Countryside,called a Communist,Fascist,Sexist,MCP and that's just by people who want to express their "freedom" to murder innocent wildlife.Just think what I'm prepared to endure to rid the world of racist,selfish,cowards like you.You are out of your league mate. It's a real shame that after being kicked, punched, beaten with the butt of a shotgun and hit on the head with a whip, etc., etc., etc. that you're still breathing the same air as I.  Did it ever occur to you that the reason you've been kicked, punched, and on and on, is that you're a grade A A-hole that nobody can stand? C'mon Doc let's eaze-off the insults. Just exactly what did you do Tony to get this kind of "treatment"? I mean it takes 2 to tango! You must've done something. Sorry, Mark...I'll cool it.  He just is so self-righteous and annoying and after he called me an idiot and a racist, I sort of lost my temper.  I have it under control again and will not let his pathetic attempts to insult me lead me to respond in kind. I'm not insulting you! I'm trying to shake you awake! Do you think I'm taking the easy option by discussing this with you? Do you think I want you to think I am a "loudmouth asshole" for the fun of it? Or maybe,just maybe,I have the bollocks to stand up and question your "beliefs" in the hope that if I cant change them,then at least you will realise that somebody out there is prepared to chastise you for your mental lethargy.

So then give me your point of view and let me analyze it from a logical viewpoint.  I think that approach to political debate works much better than attacking your opponent as being an idiot and a racist.  It is an approach I try to take, well except for just now, and it may not always swing my opponent to my way of thinking, but it is a much more civilized way to debate.  Wouldn't you agree? 

So tell me.  What are your gripes about the way whites treat blacks in America?  Why do you think it is o.k. for blacks to be angry and hate whites, but not the other way around?  Why do blacks need special treatment?  Are they not capable of taking care of themselves?  Are they not intelligent human beings who are capable of rational thought and behavior? By the way, I never, ever said or intended to imply that they as a race were not.  What are your solutions for racial harmony in the U.S.?  And I am not asking these questions to be sarcastic, I am generally interested in what you have to say on the matter, that is, if you can refrain from being insulting in the process.

The Doctor wrote: Tony R wrote: The Doctor wrote: Tony R wrote: The Doctor wrote: Tony R wrote: marktheshark wrote: Tony R wrote: If you are so sure that you are right,why dont you say the things you really want to say about the "blackman's lot" in modern America....   You're walking on a thin line on Maani's forum guidelines about respecting other culturals. Now I suggest you cool off! Yeah right! The Guidelines should prevent your kind of crypto-racist outpourings. Respect your culture? You haven't got any mate! Hit a bulls-eye,did I? Let's get back to arguing about music............ O.k  Tony, you are an obnoxious loudmouth who needs to grow up and stop attacking people just because they do not share your ultra-liberal viewpoint.  Ultra-liberal...me!!!!!!You wanna ask around the neighbourhood? Obnoxious loudmouth? You'll have to try harder than that! I've been kicked,punched,bitten (!),beaten with the butt of a shotgun,hit on the head with a whip,spat on,stamped on and kicked by horses,chased by hounds,threatened by every chinless wonder in the English Countryside,called a Communist,Fascist,Sexist,MCP and that's just by people who want to express their "freedom" to murder innocent wildlife.Just think what I'm prepared to endure to rid the world of racist,selfish,cowards like you.You are out of your league mate. It's a real shame that after being kicked, punched, beaten with the butt of a shotgun and hit on the head with a whip, etc., etc., etc. that you're still breathing the same air as I.  Did it ever occur to you that the reason you've been kicked, punched, and on and on, is that you're a grade A A-hole that nobody can stand? No I was being "kicked, punched, beaten with the butt of a shotgun and hit on the head with a whip, etc., etc., etc" because I was trying to protect something that couldnt protect itself.I was devoting my time to protesting a wrong and after many,many years the people of my country started to listen and the government changed the law. If that's being an asshole in your opinion,well goody for you! So what were you protesting? Or do I even really want to know?

Well it was Headline News for quite a long time and I know that CNN and NBC News covered it.Oh,I forgot,your interest in the outside world begins and ends with whichever country the US is bombing at any given time.

Tony R wrote: The Doctor wrote: Tony R wrote: The Doctor wrote: Tony R wrote: marktheshark wrote: Tony R wrote: If you are so sure that you are right,why dont you say the things you really want to say about the "blackman's lot" in modern America....   You're walking on a thin line on Maani's forum guidelines about respecting other culturals. Now I suggest you cool off! Yeah right! The Guidelines should prevent your kind of crypto-racist outpourings. Respect your culture? You haven't got any mate! Hit a bulls-eye,did I? Let's get back to arguing about music............ O.k  Tony, you are an obnoxious loudmouth who needs to grow up and stop attacking people just because they do not share your ultra-liberal viewpoint.  Ultra-liberal...me!!!!!!You wanna ask around the neighbourhood? Obnoxious loudmouth? You'll have to try harder than that! I've been kicked,punched,bitten (!),beaten with the butt of a shotgun,hit on the head with a whip,spat on,stamped on and kicked by horses,chased by hounds,threatened by every chinless wonder in the English Countryside,called a Communist,Fascist,Sexist,MCP and that's just by people who want to express their "freedom" to murder innocent wildlife.Just think what I'm prepared to endure to rid the world of racist,selfish,cowards like you.You are out of your league mate. It's a real shame that after being kicked, punched, beaten with the butt of a shotgun and hit on the head with a whip, etc., etc., etc. that you're still breathing the same air as I.  Did it ever occur to you that the reason you've been kicked, punched, and on and on, is that you're a grade A A-hole that nobody can stand? No I was being "kicked, punched, beaten with the butt of a shotgun and hit on the head with a whip, etc., etc., etc" because I was trying to protect something that couldnt protect itself.I was devoting my time to protesting a wrong and after many,many years the people of my country started to listen and the government changed the law. If that's being an asshole in your opinion,well goody for you!

So what were you protesting? Or do I even really want to know?

The Doctor wrote: Tony R wrote: The Doctor wrote: Tony R wrote: marktheshark wrote: Tony R wrote: If you are so sure that you are right,why dont you say the things you really want to say about the "blackman's lot" in modern America....   You're walking on a thin line on Maani's forum guidelines about respecting other culturals. Now I suggest you cool off! Yeah right! The Guidelines should prevent your kind of crypto-racist outpourings. Respect your culture? You haven't got any mate! Hit a bulls-eye,did I? Let's get back to arguing about music............ O.k  Tony, you are an obnoxious loudmouth who needs to grow up and stop attacking people just because they do not share your ultra-liberal viewpoint.  Ultra-liberal...me!!!!!!You wanna ask around the neighbourhood? Obnoxious loudmouth? You'll have to try harder than that! I've been kicked,punched,bitten (!),beaten with the butt of a shotgun,hit on the head with a whip,spat on,stamped on and kicked by horses,chased by hounds,threatened by every chinless wonder in the English Countryside,called a Communist,Fascist,Sexist,MCP and that's just by people who want to express their "freedom" to murder innocent wildlife.Just think what I'm prepared to endure to rid the world of racist,selfish,cowards like you.You are out of your league mate. It's a real shame that after being kicked, punched, beaten with the butt of a shotgun and hit on the head with a whip, etc., etc., etc. that you're still breathing the same air as I.  Did it ever occur to you that the reason you've been kicked, punched, and on and on, is that you're a grade A A-hole that nobody can stand?

No I was being "kicked, punched, beaten with the butt of a shotgun and hit on the head with a whip, etc., etc., etc" because I was trying to protect something that couldnt protect itself.I was devoting my time to protesting a wrong and after many,many years the people of my country started to listen and the government changed the law.

If that's being an asshole in your opinion,well goody for you!

I meant "cultured" as in civilized,having refinement in taste and manners.

Not how many different Cds you've got!