Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Big Five Proto Prog Bands
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedBig Five Proto Prog Bands
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Big Five Proto Prog Bands
    Posted: July 10 2014 at 02:56
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Interesting;  the retrospective from 2010 includes material from 1967 ("America") and claims to have stuff from '66 ~ presumably at Falkirk's in November ~ but that material doesn't seem to appear on the 2-disc set.   Either it's a misprint or a some kind of mix-up.
Or something more "mendacious".Wink

They have a "interesting" explanation for claiming to have played a cover of a song in 1967 when the original version was first recorded by S&G in Feb 1968 and released in April of that year - hearing pre-release copy of "Bookends" is one thing, but hearing a copy before it was recorded is something else. If you've heard the version you will be undoubtedly impressed by the sound quality, mix and balance achieved by an audience member with a 1960s portable tape recorder and how the audience of a small 150-seater Soho club can sound like 5,000 screaming teenagers at the Hammy O. 

It is strange that when a band is claimed to have invented Prog, inspired Fripp and influenced Wakeman, Emerson and everyone in The Syn and Mabel Greer's Toyshop (ie Yes) that they don't include tracks recorded in 1966 on a recent retrospective compilation. Recordings of old 1-2-3 songs do exist that Billy Richie recorded in the mid-90s but they haven't been released either.
What?
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2014 at 21:38
Interesting;  the retrospective from 2010 includes material from 1967 ("America") and claims to have stuff from '66 ~ presumably at Falkirk's in November ~ but that material doesn't seem to appear on the 2-disc set.   Either it's a misprint or a some kind of mix-up.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2014 at 20:20
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ Clouds was not Proto Prog, their previous incarnation as 1-2-3 was but they never released an album under that name. An encyclopaedia of Prog site would acknowledge 1-2-3 as Proto Prog but as we are a review-site we can only list them as such if they had released something. Clouds first release was 1969, not 1968.

Sure, 1-2-3 then, my point is they were making proto-progreessive rock as far back as '66/67.   But yes, this is not a Encyclopedia.
Well, actually we don't know 1-2-3 were making proto-prog as far back as 1967 (not '66) because there is only tenuous anecdotal evidence (that appears to have surfaced around 1994) to support it. There are no contemporary accounts from 1967/68 that describe the music they were playing.
What?
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2014 at 18:48
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ Clouds was not Proto Prog, their previous incarnation as 1-2-3 was but they never released an album under that name. An encyclopaedia of Prog site would acknowledge 1-2-3 as Proto Prog but as we are a review-site we can only list them as such if they had released something. Clouds first release was 1969, not 1968.

Sure, 1-2-3 then, my point is they were making proto-progreessive rock as far back as '66/67.   But yes, this is not a Encyclopedia.







Edited by Atavachron - July 09 2014 at 19:30
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2014 at 16:58
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


apparently neither The Moody Blues or Coloseum qualify as 'proto -prog'


Don't they? Confused Why's that then?

no idea

Ah, you mean we list them in Prog subgenres (Xover and JR/F) rather than just Proto Prog. That's not the same as they don't qualify as 'proto-prog'. You included Procol Harum in your Proto Prog list and that confused me because 'apparenty' neither Procol nor Harem qualify as 'proto -prog'. 



Clown
What?
Back to Top
Guldbamsen View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin

Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2014 at 14:42
I guess the first couple of albums from both The Moodies and Colosseum would classify for proto, but I guess they are listed here (in xover and jazz fusion respectively) for what they did later on. I'm not sure though, I wasn't around at the timeEmbarrassed
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28363 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2014 at 14:26
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


apparently neither The Moody Blues or Coloseum qualify as 'proto -prog'


Don't they? Confused Why's that then?

no idea
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2014 at 05:05
^ Clouds was not Proto Prog, their previous incarnation as 1-2-3 was but they never released an album under that name. An encyclopaedia of Prog site would acknowledge 1-2-3 as Proto Prog but as we are a review-site we can only list them as such if they had released something. Clouds first release was 1969, not 1968.
What?
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2014 at 03:59
Beach Boys -   when the evidence is explored there's a strong case they were the first professional band to do what would later be called artrock.

Beatles -   despite America's false starts in fully progressive rock music, these four delivered, always and impeccably--  they did almost everything first; odd meters in rock; infusion of classical and avant-garde motifs; sophisticated and ultra-literate lyrics and themes; multiple songs linked together; and always had something fresh to say.

Clouds -   after further exploring the '66-'71 comp, seems to me they should be PP here, not PR; maybe it's because the first record was '68.

Procol Harum -  their influence at the time was probably even bigger than is realized, everyone was listening and being blown away.   The debut is as spectacular now as it ever was.

Frank Zappa  -  actually I still have yet to have a big Zappa moment myself, but if you listen to some of those boots from '67/68, no doubt he was way ahead of the game.   No one could touch him for ambition and musicality in the late '60s.




Edited by Atavachron - July 09 2014 at 04:01
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2014 at 17:07
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


apparently neither The Moody Blues or Coloseum qualify as 'proto -prog'


Don't they? Confused Why's that then?
What?
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28363 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2014 at 16:33
The Who
Beatles
Deep Purple
Procol Harum

don't care for anyone else , The Doors especiallySleepy

apparently neither The Moody Blues or Coloseum qualify as 'proto -prog'

I also would have left The Nice where they were as well.
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2014 at 02:42
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ I suspect it's a knee jerk reaction to the recent Big 5 Prog bands thread:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98706

(nothing like a spate of revisionist w.a.n.k. to set my teeth on edgeDead)

Yea i was just unsure how someone could exclude bands like The Beatles, The Doors, etc on a list thought to be built on sales/influences/yadadada

But instead put Rare Bird? LOL


I'm also flattered that my not-so-serious post about thinking a band wasn't good enough to be considered Big Five material was mentioned in here. Though i'm sure this thread was doomed since it's creation. 



IMO, The Doors were not proto prog. IMO they were a progressive rock band because of the songs as Celebration of the Lizard, The End, People Are Strange and so on. That's why Rare Bird is on my list and The Doors aren't Smile
 
The Beatles is bad  LOL

JokIng aside, The Beatles were IMO Pop Rock, Psychedelic Rock, Rock and Progressive Rock band - 'cause of the single Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane; they aren't a Proto Prog band to my ears.

E.g. those songs are 1960's progressive rock songs IMO:







E.g. those are proto prog songs IMO:














Edited by Svetonio - June 28 2014 at 06:27
Back to Top
Horizons View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2014 at 23:19
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ I suspect it's a knee jerk reaction to the recent Big 5 Prog bands thread:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98706

(nothing like a spate of revisionist w.a.n.k. to set my teeth on edgeDead)

Yea i was just unsure how someone could exclude bands like The Beatles, The Doors, etc on a list thought to be built on sales/influences/yadadada

But instead put Rare Bird? LOL


I'm also flattered that my not-so-serious post about thinking a band wasn't good enough to be considered Big Five material was mentioned in here. Though i'm sure this thread was doomed since it's creation. 




Edited by Horizons - June 27 2014 at 23:20
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20631 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2014 at 22:46
The Moody Blues, The Doors , and of course The Beatles need to be on any list...all  were 3 very influential on other bands.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2014 at 01:58
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ I suspect it's a knee jerk reaction to the recent Big 5 Prog bands thread:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98706

(...)

Exactly! I ripped off the idea of BIG FIVE thread where the brilliant second post at the first page is: LOL

Quote Originally posted by Horizons 

ELP is bad.


LOL


Edited by Svetonio - June 27 2014 at 02:01
Back to Top
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2014 at 01:44
^ I suspect it's a knee jerk reaction to the recent Big 5 Prog bands thread:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98706

(nothing like a spate of revisionist w.a.n.k. to set my teeth on edgeDead)
Back to Top
Horizons View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2014 at 16:23
Is this thread pretty much a replacement for "Your Favorite Proto-Prog Bands?"
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2014 at 15:22
Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Imho, Big Five Proto Prog bands were:

Deep Purple

Rare Bird

Colosseum

Procol Harum

Iron Butterfly



 
I'd replace the bottom two with The Beatles and The Doors.Big smile
Thumbs Up
Back to Top
Mellotron Storm View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13586 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2014 at 08:39
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Imho, Big Five Proto Prog bands were:

Deep Purple

Rare Bird

Colosseum

Procol Harum

Iron Butterfly



 
I'd replace the bottom two with The Beatles and The Doors.Big smile
"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
Back to Top
Altairius View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 14 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 187 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2014 at 07:16
1. The Moody Blues

2. Those bands

Procol Harum competes but only because of In Held Twas in I.


Edited by Altairius - June 26 2014 at 07:16
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.102 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.