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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Genetically engineered pets
    Posted: February 17 2013 at 07:19
Originally posted by Ajay Ajay wrote:

 
Eugenics is the science of improving humans by the application of selective breeding, which is how humans have been improving plants and livestock for thousands of years. Selective breeding leads to monocultures, which, through a lack of genetic diversity in their makeup, are more susceptible to being wiped out by bacteria. The products of selective breeding, therefore, tend to be wiped out by other organisms, not the other way around.
As long as you keep a large enough population to ensure a diverse enough gene pool, and take care that mating happens among members of different strains, you can still breed towards an 'eugenic' target without compromising too much the vulnerability of the species, that's what good breeders do.

An associated but different problem however is that breeded species populations tend to be overprotected from their natural predators, bacterial infections, parasites and other diseases, so gradually they loose the features which protected them from these threats, making them vulnerable, but the cause is not selective breeding itself but overprotection.
You can do selective breeding aimed at being more resistant, more successful at defeating predators etc, it's just that that's not what is usually done.
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Points: 8621 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2013 at 03:05
Yes! I can finally have this!

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Points: 221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2013 at 00:59
Originally posted by Failcore Failcore wrote:

There's a potential to destroy entire ecosystems if a scientist puts an A C T or G in a wrong place.

How? DNA mismatches during replication and recombination have been happening for as long as there's been DNA. Organisms have a DNA mismatch repair system which repairs these errors. When that system fails, the result is cancer, not a genetic epidemic. Here as elsewhere, most mutations are not viable.

Originally posted by Failcore Failcore wrote:

Obviously an exaggeration, but the potential exists for some weird crap to go down if we start down the Eugenics path, even if limited only to animals.

Eugenics is the science of improving humans by the application of selective breeding, which is how humans have been improving plants and livestock for thousands of years. Selective breeding leads to monocultures, which, through a lack of genetic diversity in their makeup, are more susceptible to being wiped out by bacteria. The products of selective breeding, therefore, tend to be wiped out by other organisms, not the other way around.
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Points: 4625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 16:08
I tend to oppose this kind of stuff just because Mother Nature is such a complex system that the blowback is impossible to predict. There's a potential to destroy entire ecosystems if a scientist puts an A C T or G in a wrong place. It probably would go just fine to genetically engineer pets. But on the off chance something wonky and unforeseeable happens, like the genetic cat's improved immune system causing a rapid adaptation/mutation in bordatella which then jumps the species barrier to humanity and kills half the planet, it could be bad. Obviously an exaggeration, but the potential exists for some weird crap to go down if we start down the Eugenics path, even if limited only to animals. Heck just look at the transgenics stuff going on where the retroviruses used to engineer crops are getting into fauna that interact with those crops, also altering their DNA.


Edited by Failcore - February 15 2013 at 16:13
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Points: 30855 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 11:53
Doctor, Doctor, what is wrong with me?
This supermarket life is getting long...
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 11:06
The reality is already here:
 
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Points: 34083 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 10:58
lookn at the breaded race horse, its so in breaded  and so full of injected testosteron and storides that it is dangerous to eat them, hence the now very emberrasing horse meat in lasagna scandal in Europe
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 10:51
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:


Just as another trivial example concerning a far less important subject, during my recent research about music instruments for my blog article, some sources said that Roland cooperated with Ibanez to build the G-303 guitar synthesizer instrument, while other sources deny this. Who's right?

In the modern internet world anybody can publish what they want or believe. How can we tell what is objectively true or is not?


I believe that it was the parent company of Ibanez (Hoshino Musical Instruments) who Roland collaborated with on the G303 and they were manufactured by FujiGen Gakki (Fuji Stringed Musical Instruments) ... who also manufactured for Ibanez, Fender, Yamaha, Epiphone and Gibson guitars.  Which would explain why some sources believe Ibanez were involved and some do not. Essentially to make a playable guitar that could be taken seriously Roland had to get expertise from someone else and it would be more natural for them to approach a Japanese manufacturer than an American one for such a partnership.
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 10:39
Originally posted by Ajay Ajay wrote:

Holy oboes & xylophones!

http://www.genpets.com/index.php

A funny case which brings another important question: How much can /should we trust the internet?
Believe it or not , my sister is a biochemist and her husband is the dean of Barcelona biochemistry university, so they are both obviously smart people and more than familiar with genetic engineering, and yet even she was fooled for a very short time when the Genpets stuff came out years ago.

Just as another trivial example concerning a far less important subject, during my recent research about music instruments for my blog article, some sources said that Roland cooperated with Ibanez to build the G-303 guitar synthesizer instrument, while other sources deny this. Who's right?

In the modern internet world anybody can publish what they want or believe. How can we tell what is objectively true or is not?
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 06:49
Only indirectly related to the question but I found these:

1. Company that claims that they will clone your pet dog so you can 'have it again' after it died.


2. Cross-breeding experimentation in cows / bulls led to these anomalous breeds where the gene that controls muscle growth was suppressed, resulting in these 'double-muscle' animals, despite the apparent benefit of producing more meat, due to several issues they have not been clearly proven to be more economically efficient.

All in all bit scary, the Island Of Doctor Moreau Shocked
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 06:35
I am pleased that you all ran with my cat/stapler concept.  I just wrote it off the cuff, but then it had me thinking about it for the rest of the day.
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Points: 166183 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 03:02
If they could get my pet gorilla to make balloon animals and solve these differential equations my life would be much easier.
 
 
Also, this is an interesting concept. Some of which I'm sure I agree with.
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Points: 10964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 01:44
If we're going to genetically alter animals, maybe we should test it on..... humans. You know, kind of like reverse.
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Points: 221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 01:09
Holy oboes & xylophones!

http://www.genpets.com/index.php


Edited by Ajay - February 15 2013 at 03:20
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 16:37
LOL
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 16:32
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

My own layman's guess is that it can be done, but any significant changes to animals' DNA would probably need to be executed gradually over many generations, in order to keep the transition as natural as possible.  Otherwise we might be overrun with HALF CAT HALF STAPLER monsters just because one scientist had a bad day.
Well, generations on most pet-like animals are not long so that would not be a big problem.
 
I don't really see a problem with a half-cat half-stapler.  Suppose you're petting your cat and suddenly find yourself needing to staple some paperwork together.  This could solve that problem easily.  LOL
 
In fact, I'd also like to see half-cat/half-dishwasher, half-cat/half-word processor, half-cat/half-tax preparation software.  Think of the applications. 
Crossing a cat with anything remotely practical or useful would not be the best idea mankind ever dreamt of. 'Yeah, I would fasten these papers together with a neatly folded wire fixing, but the stapler is chasing its tail at the moment'; 'I would file my tax return but my tax preparation software is being shagged by the neighbours' tom-cat at the moment'; 'We'll eat once we have clean plates, which will be some short time after the dishwasher's finished licking its own arse.'
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 16:20
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

My own layman's guess is that it can be done, but any significant changes to animals' DNA would probably need to be executed gradually over many generations, in order to keep the transition as natural as possible.  Otherwise we might be overrun with HALF CAT HALF STAPLER monsters just because one scientist had a bad day.
Well, generations on most pet-like animals are not long so that would not be a big problem.
 
I don't really see a problem with a half-cat half-stapler.  Suppose you're petting your cat and suddenly find yourself needing to staple some paperwork together.  This could solve that problem easily.  LOL
 
In fact, I'd also like to see half-cat/half-dishwasher, half-cat/half-word processor, half-cat/half-tax preparation software.  Think of the applications. 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 16:16
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

All modern domestic animals are generically engineered creatures, many bear little resemblence to their wild ancestors. Whether you do it through selective breading or genesplicing the net result is the same - we engineer wild animals to be docile and loyal and have specific traits that we find atracctive or useful.
Yes sure, what I meant is, genetic engineering seems to be a faster path given current technology, isn't it strange that big corporations aren't investing in this potential business?
Because selling the concept is far harder than actually doing it, and the costs of doing it out-weigh the financial rewards when consider how hard it would be to gain public acceptance of a 'Frankenstein' pet (you can imagine the tabloid headlines already).
 
Also, while pet provisions (food, pharmaceuticals, etc) is a mult-billion dollar multi-national industry pet supply is essentially a localised cottage industry by comparison - the value of the market is too small for big corporations. We don't have huge factory farms knocking out production lines of Tibbles™ the Kat and Fido™ the Dawg - pets are supplied by lots of small specialist breeders in incredible small numbers because pets are not a consumable. In fact domestic pets like cats, dogs, mice, rabbits, goldfish etc. are such prolific little buggers they tend to multiply without too much encouragement so many people don't even obtain them from these small-scale specialist breeders but from other owners' whose moggy spent the night out on the tiles one balmy evening in June and now has a litter of kittens that are "free to a good home". With that kind of infrastructure the big boys don't stand a chance of competing.


Edited by Dean - February 14 2013 at 16:17
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 15:32
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

All modern domestic animals are generically engineered creatures, many bear little resemblence to their wild ancestors. Whether you do it through selective breading or genesplicing the net result is the same - we engineer wild animals to be docile and loyal and have specific traits that we find atracctive or useful.
Yes sure, what I meant is, genetic engineering seems to be a faster path given current technology, isn't it strange that big corporations aren't investing in this potential business?
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2013 at 15:29
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

My own layman's guess is that it can be done, but any significant changes to animals' DNA would probably need to be executed gradually over many generations, in order to keep the transition as natural as possible.  Otherwise we might be overrun with HALF CAT HALF STAPLER monsters just because one scientist had a bad day.
Well, generations on most pet-like animals are not long so that would not be a big problem.
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