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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why is Anglo-American prog so white?
    Posted: January 10 2013 at 13:45
This thread stopped being about music and Prog music a while ago.
 
Times up. Time to go.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 12:51
I am not aware of any methods engaged in order to stop African-American musicians from challenging the likes of ELP, King Crimson, Genesis, etc. Ah, but they are very English - I hear the response. Absolutely!

Krautrock is very Teutonic, whilst Italian Prog is, hmmm, well, very Italian. Nothing to do with racism, but more like cultural backgrounds and influences. Simple, isn't it?







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 12:19
Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by eldridge eldridge wrote:

Israel kicked out hundreds of blacks a few months ago with nary a peep from anyone. "Israel is for the white man" said a high Israeli official. Why is it okay for Israel to do that?

A few months, Mexico kicked out a number of illegal Central Americans, saying "Mexico is for Mexicans". 
So the Japanese are yellow supremacists, The Israelis are Jewish supremacists and Mexicans are brown supremacists. You say I am a white supremacist. What's the difference between my views and the above examples?

It is white countries, and only white countries, which are forced to accept diversity, and ultimately the displacement of white people themselves.

I just read that, and my first comment was LOL and Confused. But I guess you just don't see the things like they are or see just one side of the story, it is actually very simple.

Israel in the past 10 years wasn't fighting its infiltrators from Sudan problem enough. Those people were crossing the border illegally and would end up mostly in Tel Aviv. When the situation got to where there was no job for all those people, they had a problem of keeping their very basic needs like food and shelter, and what do you think that led to?

Crime!


Now the government had put it in its top priority to stop those illegal infiltrators and to deport the ones who were already staying here illegally, especially after a rape incident which stormed the country.

My main point here is that if those infiltrators were white, believe me they would be kicked out too.

Well, being in Israel, you certainly know more about it than I. Incidentally, I support the actions of the Israeli government. 

Poverty does not lead to crime. The people of Appalachia are very poor. There is virtually no crime. During The Great Depression, thousands struggled to make ends meet. There was no increase in crime.

Am I correct in saying that Israel is a Jewish state? Is Israel interested in "diversifying"? Is there affirmative action for non-Jews? If not, why not? 

I repeat, why is it okay for Jews, Africans and Asians to have their own homogeneous countries and not whites?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 08:43
George Clinton was a fan of ELP as was Bernie Worrell in Parliament/Funkadelic.  Again, though...back then you had "black stations" and "white stations" unlike now where it's a melting pot.  Funkadelic drew their inspiration from the Cleveland Ohio and Motown sounds of Detroit.  If anything, "funk" snuck it's funky little head into prog rock.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 06:53
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Do drummers count?LOL
Only up to 4, unless they are Prog Drummers, they can get up to 13.

Boom, boom!  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 06:47
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Do drummers count?LOL
Only up to 4, unless they are Prog Drummers, they can get up to 13.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 06:45
Do drummers count?LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 06:44
Johanne James - Threshold
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 06:38

Curiously, I saw a Black geezer grooving at the flower Kings concert in Holmefirth, and remarkably that is the only black man or woman I have EVER seen at a prog rock concert.....also in the few conversations I have had with black men about music - all of them thought that progressive rock was the same as death metal - in that all of them said - "Not listening to that it's all bang bang bang - gives me a headache......" or similar , Conversely loads of white people flock to and appreciate the black rooted music of Blues/Soul etc.....seems to me that racism seems to be a reverse polarisation of the normal trends.............

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 06:08
^Thanks for the info. That makes a lot of sense.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 01:38
Originally posted by eldridge eldridge wrote:

Israel kicked out hundreds of blacks a few months ago with nary a peep from anyone. "Israel is for the white man" said a high Israeli official. Why is it okay for Israel to do that?

A few months, Mexico kicked out a number of illegal Central Americans, saying "Mexico is for Mexicans". 
So the Japanese are yellow supremacists, The Israelis are Jewish supremacists and Mexicans are brown supremacists. You say I am a white supremacist. What's the difference between my views and the above examples?

It is white countries, and only white countries, which are forced to accept diversity, and ultimately the displacement of white people themselves.

I just read that, and my first comment was LOL and Confused. But I guess you just don't see the things like they are or see just one side of the story, it is actually very simple.

Israel in the past 10 years wasn't fighting its infiltrators from Sudan problem enough. Those people were crossing the border illegally and would end up mostly in Tel Aviv. When the situation got to where there was no job for all those people, they had a problem of keeping their very basic needs like food and shelter, and what do you think that led to?

Crime!

Now the government had put it in its top priority to stop those illegal infiltrators and to deport the ones who were already staying here illegally, especially after a rape incident which stormed the country.

My main point here is that if those infiltrators were white, believe me they would be kicked out too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2013 at 00:11
OK, check Mychael out!  He's seriously into Keith Emerson, Yes & all good stuff!  




Edited by cstack3 - January 10 2013 at 00:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2013 at 20:40
I might have missed it but five pages of thread and not one mention of David Sancious???
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2013 at 19:51
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

My friend Mychael Pollard would take great exception to this thread!  (check out this video, I can't get https videos to open properly on this forum)

This sounds like jazz fusion to me...

 
1st post - "Why is Anglo-American prog so white? Other than jazz fusion, prog tended/tends to be lily-white. I think this is a shame, since I really love the sounds of funk and soul, and can only imagine how great black prog could've been. And maybe we should think about adding some black bands to PA? I mean, P-Funk could be pretty proggy and/or spacey at times (e.g. MAGGOT BRAIN)."


Edited by jude111 - January 09 2013 at 19:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2013 at 19:44
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

My friend Mychael Pollard would take great exception to this thread!  (check out this video, I can't get https videos to open properly on this forum)



your link would not open so I put this up.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2013 at 19:32
My friend Mychael Pollard would take great exception to this thread!  (check out this video, I can't get https videos to open properly on this forum)



Edited by cstack3 - January 09 2013 at 19:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2013 at 19:16
I still don't understand the point of this thread, if there's any. Not that there has to be one anyway. PA after all
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2013 at 18:53
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


And one other person had an even bigger impact on this ... and he was far more progressive in his area than most ... but we would never consider him there, for those two albums, at least!
 
Goes like this in my early days of seeing black artists:
 
Chuck Berry -- (DJ's Madison) 95% black audience
Little Richard -- (DJ's Madison) 95% black audience
Earth Wind and Fire -- Santa Monica Civic -- 90% black audience
Blue Note All Stars -- in LA -- 100% black audience
Oscar Peterson -- in LA -- 100% black audience
Charles Musselwhite -- in SF -- 90% black audience
Mississipi Charles Bevel -- in Santa Barbara -- 90% black audience
Stevie Wonder -- Santa Monica Civic -- 95% black audience (like 72 or 73)
James Brown -- Santa Barbara -- 95% black audience
Michael Jackson (Bad Tour) - LA - 50% black audience
 
When it came to the "mixing" and getting people together, there is one person mentioned here that is never given that credit or appreciated for some of his work. Stevie Wonder, for some reason, was not as strong in the audience department as Michael was ... but it shows you ... that even without advertising ... some of these folks went to see their artists ... but it also showed a separation that is ... still visible.
 
It bothers me that when I went to see YES, the audience was 99% white. And when I saw Pink Floyd in 1972, it was 95% white. And when I saw it last year ... it was 90% white ... which is an improvement from 30 years ago ... I guess.
 
All in all, the day that ALL MUSIC BECOMES IMPORTANT, AND NOT THE RACE OR COLOR, is the day that we will ALL OF US, be color blind.
 
Sadly, when you look at the world and even some religious groups wanting to go their own separatist way ... I am not feeling too positive that the integration will happen ... and that we will hear some more mixes and far out music.
 
Which is really sad ... because a label like ECM has so many "blacks" ... but no one in America enjoys listening to them ... it's much easier to listen to the much more traditional "Blue Note" stuff and not anything else. And "Blue Note" has not, and probably never will, release the stuff that is not "traditional" that they think will confuse the fans about the artistry involved. A lot of it was experimental, free form and played far longer than 5 minutes -- which we are not hearing ... thus, we will not have a better, and more comprehensive, sense of history of music in America.
 
Again, America is about 4 or 5 countries, and some of them do not have the respect of others and vice versa ... and that means that it is really hard to have one area appreciate another, unless the media can get a top ten out of it ... so everyone thinks it's good!

Thanks Pedro....your comments are at least still within the topic in this strange thread.   I agree that Michael Jackson was more successful in appealing to white, black audiences...actually, the whole world.   The closest to a Beatles-like phenomenon since their time.  Interestingly, that marks the point where black audiences began to push back and it may have ultimately spurred the popularity of hip-hop among them.   Sadly, we go only so far and no further in this regard, it seems.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2013 at 18:47
Originally posted by Neelus Neelus wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

That would be a bit like how men often relate better to women singing more aggressively to violent music because that is closer to traditional 'male music' notions.   Whether you like it or not, that already suggests the effect that stereotypes have had in shaping your tastes. 


Jon Anderson? LOLBig smile

That is a good example.  It is women who are expected to sound 'naughty' or 'sexy' or whatever, not Jon.  Jon has full licence to sing the way he wants and sees fit, women aren't granted the right to be independent artists, they must conform to male notions of music.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2013 at 18:05
Originally posted by eldridge eldridge wrote:

For anyone who is interested in what I have to say, I invite you here, www.amren.com
Dead this is to racism what intelligent design is to creationism.
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