Yes vs. ELP

Tarkus > Every song in Yes discography NOT BY FAR

richardh wrote: Dellinger wrote: richardh wrote: Dellinger wrote: richardh wrote: rogerthat wrote: richardh wrote: Keith Emerson is actually a very talented composer. Comparing to Rick Wakeman I don't find anything he has done is inferior to Rick except Six Wives which is a masterpeice.   Actually, Six Wives is the only Rick album I have heard and I didn't like that one all that much either.  In Yes, Squire and Anderson contributed more in terms of composing.  Yes were just a more balanced lineup which is kind of inevitable with a five piece instead of a power trio.   Six Wives is imo a very powerfull instrumental work.Rick admittedly wasn't entirely satisfied with only because he intended the tracks to be longer but for some reason (presumably record company intervention) they were clipped. But there are some of the best melodies and themes Rick ever composed on that album and the contribution of great musicians such as Chas Cronk and Bill Bruford adds another dimension. The other Rick Wakeman album I really like is Myths and Legends which also has some very strong material. I never got what was good about Journey though which was the other of his very successfull trilogy of solo releases. Like Keith ,Rick's career ran off the rails mainly because of personal issues and the general shift away from proggy /instrumental stuff that occured in the post punk music scene.      Indeed, Six Wives is a magnificent album, 5 stars for me. I believe the songs ended up being shorter than Wakeman intended because they wouldn't fit in an LP, and that's the reason Wakeman didn't include his intended song for King Henry himself. Though the live release of that album at Hampton Court, with orchestra, does include much longer versions of his songs, plus the Henry song, plus an intro and a closer... this release may be even better than the original (or at least very close). Oh, and about the musicians on the original 6 wives, don't forget Alan White, he gives an awsome performance on Anne of Cleves (if I remember the name of the song correctly).      A fun fact about this album is when Wakeman showed it to the record company, he had just about completed it, but they went like, ok, it will be great when you add the vocals. Then Wakeman said it was an instrumental rock album and they didn't quiet like the idea, they thought it would be a failure, and said so. However, Wakeman had his way and the album actually was a success. One of the persons that had said the album would be a failure had to give Wakeman some sort of public recognition for the good sales of the album.      I also love Myths and Legends, and Journey I find very good too, though if falls somewhat short of the grandeur I find in 6 Wives and Arthur.      I still find some other albums from Wakeman that are very enjoyable after Arthur, specially The Criminal Record (which has 3 songs with Squire and White), and on the 90's he release Return to the Center of the Earth, which has some very very good songs. Out There is also an excellent album, almost on par with his 70's greats. And the Retro pair of albums both have some very good songs... and some not so good, but I guess I could make a 5 star album by choosing my favourite songs from both albums. As a matter of fact, for me Wakeman solo has more 5 star albums than Yes themselves.   Yep record company executives are a complete waste of space!   I would like to get Criminal Record. Been looking for it for a while , not sure if its even available on CD?   I've got Out There and Return To The Centre Of The Earth but neither do that much for me tbh. I do like the Retro albums and spent a bit more time reviewing than I normally do. I think he deserves a bit more credit for those than he seems to have received.   There's also the new age stuff and trilogy of piano recordings (Night Airs/Country Airs and Sea Airs) which are vey pleasant and help showcase his great skills as a pianist.   I do have the DVD of Six Wives at Hampton Court. Think I will give that a watch today or tomorrow now you mention it.   Yep I do like Alan White a lot. Ann Of Cleeves is fantastic. White's drumming is spot on perfect. I always mention this when there are threads about best drumming performances. Just thought I would mention Bruford to try and sound smart            I got Criminal Record on a weird CD release which contains also Journey to the Center of the Earth in the same CD (I guess it must be an italian release, or some other country's release)... I already had Journey anyway... however, I guess I must be grateful to the CD shop for being able to get it for me (even if they took several months to do so). I still think it was a strange pairing, it would have sounded much better with 6 wives.      I also like some of Wakeman's albums that are not so progressive, at least to some extent.      About Return to the Center of the Earth, I only like some songs on that album... but I really like those songs a lot.      Oh, by the way, I did attend that 6 wives in Hampton concert (well, it was the night before the concert that was recorded). I guess this is one of the most exclussive performances I will ever be able to attend, and really memorable.   Actually yesterday I downloaded Criminal Record from Amazon and then funnily enough burnt it onto a CD with Six Wives Probably put in on a par with Myths and Legends

Good, I hope you enjoy it... Judas Iscariot is brilliant.

Brain Salad Surgery (and Tarkus) are to me the only things remarkable that ELP ever created. YESHowever, I think the answer (if there is even a definite answer based on music's undisposed nature) is of low value.

Edited by -Radioswim- - July 04 2011 at 12:52

MagnumOpus wrote: Wow, that's a tough one! I love both bands, and both bands have albums on my most favorite albums list, Close to the edge, Relayer and Going for the one from Yes, and the debut album and Trilogy from ELP. I guess that makes Yes the winner? ARGHH, I really dont want to choose....

Both are very good and interresting musicians, last hight times with them: the album with Bonilla for keith and at Lincoln cathedral for Rick ( playing the church organ) for pieces based around a combination of fixed notation and improvisation, and all that at nice price.....

Dellinger wrote: richardh wrote: Dellinger wrote: richardh wrote: rogerthat wrote: richardh wrote: Keith Emerson is actually a very talented composer. Comparing to Rick Wakeman I don't find anything he has done is inferior to Rick except Six Wives which is a masterpeice.   Actually, Six Wives is the only Rick album I have heard and I didn't like that one all that much either.  In Yes, Squire and Anderson contributed more in terms of composing.  Yes were just a more balanced lineup which is kind of inevitable with a five piece instead of a power trio.   Six Wives is imo a very powerfull instrumental work.Rick admittedly wasn't entirely satisfied with only because he intended the tracks to be longer but for some reason (presumably record company intervention) they were clipped. But there are some of the best melodies and themes Rick ever composed on that album and the contribution of great musicians such as Chas Cronk and Bill Bruford adds another dimension. The other Rick Wakeman album I really like is Myths and Legends which also has some very strong material. I never got what was good about Journey though which was the other of his very successfull trilogy of solo releases. Like Keith ,Rick's career ran off the rails mainly because of personal issues and the general shift away from proggy /instrumental stuff that occured in the post punk music scene.      Indeed, Six Wives is a magnificent album, 5 stars for me. I believe the songs ended up being shorter than Wakeman intended because they wouldn't fit in an LP, and that's the reason Wakeman didn't include his intended song for King Henry himself. Though the live release of that album at Hampton Court, with orchestra, does include much longer versions of his songs, plus the Henry song, plus an intro and a closer... this release may be even better than the original (or at least very close). Oh, and about the musicians on the original 6 wives, don't forget Alan White, he gives an awsome performance on Anne of Cleves (if I remember the name of the song correctly).      A fun fact about this album is when Wakeman showed it to the record company, he had just about completed it, but they went like, ok, it will be great when you add the vocals. Then Wakeman said it was an instrumental rock album and they didn't quiet like the idea, they thought it would be a failure, and said so. However, Wakeman had his way and the album actually was a success. One of the persons that had said the album would be a failure had to give Wakeman some sort of public recognition for the good sales of the album.      I also love Myths and Legends, and Journey I find very good too, though if falls somewhat short of the grandeur I find in 6 Wives and Arthur.      I still find some other albums from Wakeman that are very enjoyable after Arthur, specially The Criminal Record (which has 3 songs with Squire and White), and on the 90's he release Return to the Center of the Earth, which has some very very good songs. Out There is also an excellent album, almost on par with his 70's greats. And the Retro pair of albums both have some very good songs... and some not so good, but I guess I could make a 5 star album by choosing my favourite songs from both albums. As a matter of fact, for me Wakeman solo has more 5 star albums than Yes themselves.   Yep record company executives are a complete waste of space!   I would like to get Criminal Record. Been looking for it for a while , not sure if its even available on CD?   I've got Out There and Return To The Centre Of The Earth but neither do that much for me tbh. I do like the Retro albums and spent a bit more time reviewing than I normally do. I think he deserves a bit more credit for those than he seems to have received.   There's also the new age stuff and trilogy of piano recordings (Night Airs/Country Airs and Sea Airs) which are vey pleasant and help showcase his great skills as a pianist.   I do have the DVD of Six Wives at Hampton Court. Think I will give that a watch today or tomorrow now you mention it.   Yep I do like Alan White a lot. Ann Of Cleeves is fantastic. White's drumming is spot on perfect. I always mention this when there are threads about best drumming performances. Just thought I would mention Bruford to try and sound smart            I got Criminal Record on a weird CD release which contains also Journey to the Center of the Earth in the same CD (I guess it must be an italian release, or some other country's release)... I already had Journey anyway... however, I guess I must be grateful to the CD shop for being able to get it for me (even if they took several months to do so). I still think it was a strange pairing, it would have sounded much better with 6 wives.      I also like some of Wakeman's albums that are not so progressive, at least to some extent.      About Return to the Center of the Earth, I only like some songs on that album... but I really like those songs a lot.      Oh, by the way, I did attend that 6 wives in Hampton concert (well, it was the night before the concert that was recorded). I guess this is one of the most exclussive performances I will ever be able to attend, and really memorable.

YES

akaBona wrote: YES. Average Yes material beats top ELP material easily. ELP has nothing equal if you think timeline from Yes Album to Going For The One. And still there are lots of Yes albums after that which are much much better than any ELP effort, Union and Magnification just to name few.

You gotta' be kidding!

It's interesting to read how people describe the differing contributions of Emerson and Wakeman to both band's output.
For ELP, the keys are always the uncontested focal point of the music while for Yes, there is a much more even distribution between Wakeman and the guitar of Howe. It also seems clear to my ears that Emerson has a lot of jazz under his fingers, while Rick patently does not. (I'm guessing that's what esky meant by bluesy?) That's just an observation, not a criticism as they're both great in their own individual ways.

richardh wrote: rogerthat wrote: richardh wrote: Keith Emerson is actually a very talented composer. Comparing to Rick Wakeman I don't find anything he has done is inferior to Rick except Six Wives which is a masterpeice.   Actually, Six Wives is the only Rick album I have heard and I didn't like that one all that much either.  In Yes, Squire and Anderson contributed more in terms of composing.  Yes were just a more balanced lineup which is kind of inevitable with a five piece instead of a power trio.   Six Wives is imo a very powerfull instrumental work.Rick admittedly wasn't entirely satisfied with only because he intended the tracks to be longer but for some reason (presumably record company intervention) they were clipped. But there are some of the best melodies and themes Rick ever composed on that album and the contribution of great musicians such as Chas Cronk and Bill Bruford adds another dimension. The other Rick Wakeman album I really like is Myths and Legends which also has some very strong material. I never got what was good about Journey though which was the other of his very successfull trilogy of solo releases. Like Keith ,Rick's career ran off the rails mainly because of personal issues and the general shift away from proggy /instrumental stuff that occured in the post punk music scene.

     Indeed, Six Wives is a magnificent album, 5 stars for me. I believe the songs ended up being shorter than Wakeman intended because they wouldn't fit in an LP, and that's the reason Wakeman didn't include his intended song for King Henry himself. Though the live release of that album at Hampton Court, with orchestra, does include much longer versions of his songs, plus the Henry song, plus an intro and a closer... this release may be even better than the original (or at least very close). Oh, and about the musicians on the original 6 wives, don't forget Alan White, he gives an awsome performance on Anne of Cleves (if I remember the name of the song correctly).

     A fun fact about this album is when Wakeman showed it to the record company, he had just about completed it, but they went like, ok, it will be great when you add the vocals. Then Wakeman said it was an instrumental rock album and they didn't quiet like the idea, they thought it would be a failure, and said so. However, Wakeman had his way and the album actually was a success. One of the persons that had said the album would be a failure had to give Wakeman some sort of public recognition for the good sales of the album.

     I also love Myths and Legends, and Journey I find very good too, though if falls somewhat short of the grandeur I find in 6 Wives and Arthur.

     I still find some other albums from Wakeman that are very enjoyable after Arthur, specially The Criminal Record (which has 3 songs with Squire and White), and on the 90's he release Return to the Center of the Earth, which has some very very good songs. Out There is also an excellent album, almost on par with his 70's greats. And the Retro pair of albums both have some very good songs... and some not so good, but I guess I could make a 5 star album by choosing my favourite songs from both albums. As a matter of fact, for me Wakeman solo has more 5 star albums than Yes themselves.