Defining Prog- The Eternal Question

Prog rock is art rock.

Discussion over.

Yeah.

The fusion of non rock music with rock to make new music. Sophisticated classical harmonies, is the favourite basing the music around symphonic progressive rock but not limiting progressive rock.

Progressive rock is music that moves beyond roots music.and beyond rock where rock has incorporated blues or folk for example but not made it more harmonically sophisticated. KC for instance eschew blues and initially used classical motifs to define their music, along with some jazz elements. Later avant-garde experiments made the laboratory that is Crim into protein music (by which I mean no production sugar or carbs to make it "palatable" i.e. the audio compromise that makes something fit public taste.

The other side is the necessary audience, some either go with what they know and hate it when the band starts playing different tunes (Yes, Genesis) or love the more out there elements (e.g. Magma, Can).

IMHO the arguments that are born from absolute extremes e.g. NO PF without Syd, Or Roger, or Rick are involved in personalities not progression. Progression implies change and many people don't like that progressive musc fans being people as well. Just look at the results non prog artist Neil Young has when he plays the unexpected.

Or the controversial pop element. Oddly perhaps but quality pop (Mike Oldfield's is perfectly suited to progressive rock. Pop eschews roots music, is more correct in academic terms (Abba) and allows classical and sophisticated elements. Of course there is the mindless dreck which has none or little of these qualities; hideous creations that are about...

Cultural identity....

....whereas prog rock IS about music. No choice really. There is no fashion element, unlike metal punk hip hop reggae usw etc. So this is where arguments get confused. Pop culture is based entirely around music that has meaning for the moment then that moment moves on. e.g. grunge. I suppose the closest would be the hippy fashions of the 60s and 70s when the golden era began and ended and then the real test for progress began; how would old attitude react to new formats, ideas etc. (Predictably rather negatively e.g. Asia who really made symphonic prog rock in an era that was only the start of our very common ADD).

If people want to listen to great music there is Tchaikovsky, Miles, Beethoven. Zeppelin, Coltrane, Crimson and Zappa. But prog rock exists in the music world not pop culture - though some times it tries (metal) but alas, has to settle for being about music rather than the easy to market stuff like fashion. How irritating. No wonder no one likes it. No wonder P Tree get moved from alt rock to mainstream in my city's music store.

Prog rock is about musical adventure.

Thanks for listening.

Henry Plainview wrote: Polo wrote: He gets it!!! Stop it.

lol

Polo wrote: He gets it!!!

Stop it. 

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote: Defining Prog and defining artist can be done quite easily.   Prog = King Crimson   artist = King Crimson   seriously if i had the time i would post what is already up on the home page here under genres.   You know when you hear it but you cannot define it easily, you simly know what it is.

Exactly!

Defining Prog and defining artist can be done quite easily.

?

Dean wrote: Well done on reaching the magic 100 posts, albeit by random double posting. rematpac wrote: moshkito wrote: Dean wrote: ...  HOWEVER your original assertion was the it was originally called Karn Eval and they changed it later. Thus far all the evidence suggests it has always been called Karn Evil.   I am not sure that any part of the Karn Eval idea makes any sense at all ... specially when the art work used in the cover suggeests something else, and was by someone whose work ... is scary for many folks, and sometimes might even be considered "evil", and eventually a lot of his art work became a massive part of the first "Alien" film.   The number 9 designation, I am not sure is necessary or that important ... and for all we know, and failed to check, the piece had 9 parts and that was that! ... something silly like that ... but it could also be just another Beatle thing ... why Revolution #9 when ... wait a minute ... where's Revolution #2?   I don't like to question the titles of things and for that reason, I do NOT name any of my poems ... and over 200 of them, use the first line for index'ing purposes, with one issue ... I have the same first line (intentional evil here Bugs Bunny style too so we can confuse all these Ducks!) on several poems ... that go in different directions.   I can not tell you why they have the same first line any more than I can why the line is the first line of the poem in there ... it's just the way it came out ... and that's that!   I think "Karn Evil 9" is more appropriate, specially when the title of the album suggests a big messy brain ...and in the end the whole thing could be about all three of them being so screwed up in their own circus that they could use a brain surgery ... or a 9th one! As it was well known that they had arguments, but they managed to smooth things out enough and move along ... but ... It doesn't matter ... it really doesn't ... but the friction in them and between them created some excellent music ... and if that is necessary for karn evil 9 to come along ... that is just fine with me! I thought I had this post thing figured out ,but I guess not so I'll try it again : The most logical explanation at this point is that I was the victim of a typo of the word EVAL on a very early BSS press.Since it has always been my favorite rock music work my memory is undisputable on the question.BBS and other ELP releases have an extensive history of an unusually number of typos unfortunately.It took 37 years to discover the truth with the help of this website.I never liked the spelling of EVAL(thinking possibly using it fron the word MEDIEVAL)and was glad when I saw it changed,not realizing that it never was suppose to be spelled EVAL all along.As far as the no.9 being used,I just gave it my best guess with former rock history in mind. The #9 was explained by Keith Emerson on the liner-notes to the BSS remaster - nothing to do with the Beatles, he wanted to call the track 'Ganton 9' after an imaginary planet (ie the 9th planet orbiting a star called Ganton, just as Earth can be called 'Sol 3' in astronomical parlance).   Now, since you are a Senior Member I will officially ask you to stop disrupting threads with off-topic posts.

Anyone game enough to start an Evel Knievel appreciation thread?

moshkito wrote: Dean wrote: ...  HOWEVER your original assertion was the it was originally called Karn Eval and they changed it later. Thus far all the evidence suggests it has always been called Karn Evil.   I am not sure that any part of the Karn Eval idea makes any sense at all ... specially when the art work used in the cover suggeests something else, and was by someone whose work ... is scary for many folks, and sometimes might even be considered "evil", and eventually a lot of his art work became a massive part of the first "Alien" film.   The number 9 designation, I am not sure is necessary or that important ... and for all we know, and failed to check, the piece had 9 parts and that was that! ... something silly like that ... but it could also be just another Beatle thing ... why Revolution #9 when ... wait a minute ... where's Revolution #2?   I don't like to question the titles of things and for that reason, I do NOT name any of my poems ... and over 200 of them, use the first line for index'ing purposes, with one issue ... I have the same first line (intentional evil here Bugs Bunny style too so we can confuse all these Ducks!) on several poems ... that go in different directions.   I can not tell you why they have the same first line any more than I can why the line is the first line of the poem in there ... it's just the way it came out ... and that's that! The most logical explanation is that I was simply the victim of a typo on an early BBS album cover and it has taken 37 years for me to discover the truth thanks to this website.   I think "Karn Evil 9" is more appropriate, specially when the title of the album suggests a big messy brain ...and in the end the whole thing could be about all three of them being so screwed up in their own circus that they could use a brain surgery ... or a 9th one! As it was well known that they had arguments, but they managed to smooth things out enough and move along ... but ... It doesn't matter ... it really doesn't ... but the friction in them and between them created some excellent music ... and if that is necessary for karn evil 9 to come along ... that is just fine with me!

Dean wrote: ...  HOWEVER your original assertion was the it was originally called Karn Eval and they changed it later. Thus far all the evidence suggests it has always been called Karn Evil.