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ExittheLemming 
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 Topic: What's wrong with ELP?
Posted: April 15 2010 at 22:27 |
 Dellinger wrote:
What I find kind of weird, is that the "Why do people hate ELP" kind of threads are getting more attention than the "ELP apreciation" threads. |
It could be what's called a self fulfilling prophecy (and I'm a massive ELP fan)
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Dellinger
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Posted: April 15 2010 at 22:17 |
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What I find kind of weird, is that the "Why do people hate ELP" kind of threads are getting more attention than the "ELP apreciation" threads.
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Green Shield Stamp
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Joined: February 17 2009
Location: Telford, UK
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Posted: April 15 2010 at 12:37 |
himtroy wrote:
How many threads exactly like this are there? |
If I had a penny for every thread like this, I would have 7 or 8 pence by now!
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Haiku
Writing a poem
With seventeen syllables
Is very diffic....
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himtroy
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Posted: April 14 2010 at 19:51 |
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How many threads exactly like this are there?
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genbanks
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Posted: April 14 2010 at 19:15 |
I like ELP as an integral effort, but they have many lights and shadows in their albums. I know that it's a matter of taste, and nothing is written about this. But the key, in my opinion, is in the composition quality. Emerson and Palmer (maybe Lake), are full of virtuosity, they are great performers, but they were not great composers (or songwriters). I like much many tracks of ELP but I can't find an album that I can say: "ok, It's excellent". By the way the top progbands in the seventies were Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd and ELP. The ELP sound is unique, and the bombastic side of them, is fantastic for me, is one of the reason why I like this band.
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Yessdude
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Joined: April 12 2010
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Posted: April 14 2010 at 18:42 |
well, dont worry about elp's records rating, its just a balance of taste prog archives people.
iMO, yes destroys elp cause they manage better virtuosity and shymphonic in their albums than elp, although elp is a top 5 live prog rock band. 
saludos
lima
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 15:22 |
Too much LDS. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: March 29 2010 at 14:52 |
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^ Interesting comments as IQ are probbaly my second favourite band after ELP. I rated Seventh House as 4 stars but did admit that it lacked originality. That said the material on the album is very strong throughout.Neo Prog as a genre sits very differently to classic symphonic prog. IQ write in a more emotional 'human' vein than ELP although quite obviously Paul 'Cookie' Cook is not going to threaten Carl 'the human whirlwind' Palmer in the best prog drummer stakes any time soon. But I do thoroughly enjoy IQ's music and they give me something that I don't get from ELP. Seventh House is a solid 4 stars in neo prog terms as Trilogy is in classic symphonic prog terms IMO.
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Gerinski
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Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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Posted: March 28 2010 at 12:23 |
Gerinski wrote:
I'd rate higher an album with several true masterpieces but some flaw, than a consistently good album but with no real highlight in it. Of course we need some sense of measure, a masterpice of 10 min in an otherwise full of sh*t album of 50 min is not enough to rate the album 5 stars, this is common sense. I love the song Lifeline in Neal Morse's same titled album but I rated it 2 stars because most of the rest sucks. And yet I rate any of the first albums of ELP until Welcome Back (included) with 5 stars without hesitation. |
I was just listening to IQ's "The Seventh House" and realised that it's a perfect example of what I meant with this. It has an average rating of 4.03, exactly the same as "Trilogy" and very close to "ELP debut", "Tarkus" or "BSS". And 41% 5-star ratings. Sorry but I can not get that such an album has the same score as ELP's masterpices. Just as reference here's my just posted review of this IQ album:
"Martin Orford may not like the neo-prog tag but the truth is, if you should explain to somebody what neo-prog is there are not much better ways that putting on this CD. IQ are as close to the paradigm of neo-prog as one can be, and this album is a really fine one in their discography.
A very solid and consistently good album from start to finish, it does not have any really weak moments or flaws. Why then only 3 stars? Well, the problem is a frequent one between IQ and me: as much as I can not find any weak moments, I can not find any really memorable music either. It's as if the music is constantly hovering around the level of 7 - 7,5 over 10, never getting below this but never getting higher either. It's not easy to really identify the reason, maybe the lack of virtuosism, the absence of really interesting ideas in their choices of chord progressions, scales, keys and dynamics, the lack of sympohic moments, I don't know. It's as if the guys were not ambitious enough.
This consistency makes it hard to talk about individual tracks, none is really bad but none does really stand out, although if I should choose I would select "The wrong side of weird", the title track and "Guiding Light" as the best picks.
Personally I can not understand how this album has got 41% of the reviews with 5 stars. To me it's a good album which can be listened to with moderate pleasure, an album fitting perfectly with the description for 3 stars: Good, but far from essential."
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: March 26 2010 at 17:23 |
halabalushindigus wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen;
In Concert
Emerson
Lake
Palmer performing "Picture Of a Tarkus"
mon 09 10 9:30p
Croydon Gate Manor-Gentlemen's Club Weybridge
Plaeso no wallflowers
Men 25.00$ Ladies free |
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boo boo
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Posted: March 26 2010 at 17:18 |
The s/t debut, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery are all fantastic albums with very little filler. Tarkus is my favorite piece of music from ELP, the album itself is unven, the second side has Bitches Crystal, Infinite Space and Time and a Place which are pretty strong, but it also has Jeremy Bender and The Only Way which are average/mediocre and Are You Ready Eddie? which is all kinds of terribad, though to be fair it is a joke song.
Works II has some great stuff too, since it's mostly outtakes from these albums.
After that, yeah, dark times indeed.
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halabalushindigus
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Posted: March 25 2010 at 03:21 |
Ladies and Gentlemen;
In Concert
Emerson
Lake
Palmer performing "Picture Of a Tarkus"
mon 09 10 9:30p
Croydon Gate Manor-Gentlemen's Club Weybridge
Plaeso no wallflowers
Men 25.00$ Ladies free
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assume the power 1586/14.3
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halabalushindigus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2009
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 1438
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Posted: March 25 2010 at 03:01 |
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I'm so stuck and bored here in San Diego USA wish I was in the U.K. you guys be safe and have fun on sunday
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assume the power 1586/14.3
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 28064
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Posted: March 25 2010 at 02:47 |
geoffbarra wrote:
richardh
Hi
...pleased to hear your endorsement of "Daddy" - a song that definitely has deep meaning (to me anyway!)
With regards to "In The Hot Seat" - I hear you...however if this album had been released by some Pop ballad singer/group - or even a Greg Lake solo effort - it would have received more critical aclaim. Taken in the context of previous ELP music I can understand it getting slammed, but that is due to the extremely high expectations ELP created and the style of music they were expected to produce.
Pretend 'In The Hot Seat' is not an ELP album and then it has some merit...(ah, I guess I'm just a sentimental old fart.)
Please let it be Pendragon and/or Marillion on Sunday...!Big Smile
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For me though that is the problem..its not an ELP album. One of the tracks 'Gone Too Soon' even has a session drummer and keyboard player which is shocking really. I genuinely wish they hadn't put their name to it and it had been released under a pseudonym then I wouldn't have had to buy it and listen to it.
Marillion would be nice although I started falling out of love with them after Brave.
Pendragon never did it for me although I quite like Clive Nolan's work with Arena.
Edited by richardh - March 25 2010 at 02:50
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geoffbarra
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Posted: March 24 2010 at 19:52 |
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richardh
Hi
...pleased to hear your endorsement of "Daddy" - a song that definitely has deep meaning (to me anyway!)
With regards to "In The Hot Seat" - I hear you...however if this album had been released by some Pop ballad singer/group - or even a Greg Lake solo effort - it would have received more critical aclaim. Taken in the context of previous ELP music I can understand it getting slammed, but that is due to the extremely high expectations ELP created and the style of music they were expected to produce.
Pretend 'In The Hot Seat' is not an ELP album and then it has some merit...(ah, I guess I'm just a sentimental old fart.)
Please let it be Pendragon and/or Marillion on Sunday...!Big Smile
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Without Prog - where would wise men be...?
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 28064
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Posted: March 24 2010 at 15:44 |
geoffbarra wrote:
Lemming
Hi
I guess I understand your point of view - taking this song (Daddy) on face value - however, living through a (very) similar experience - thank the Lord though with a much happier ending!!! it obviously has more meaning to me than the 'average' (not that I am suggesting in any way that you're average LOL) listener.
- Which goes back to my point about music being totally and simply a matter of opinion - without which we would not have forums like this to meet. (well above 'average') new people!
One thing though - whatever the merits - or otherwise, of a particular song no one can possibly argue about the relative talents of these three outstanding musicians.
...looking forward to seeing the old gits back together for the High Voltage Festival in London this summer...!
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In The Hot Seat (sometimes dubbed' In The Toilet') was an album so bad that it actually hastened the collpase of Victory Records. However if there is one salvageable moment then it is Daddy. I am absolutely sure that this was a genuine heartfelt message from Greg Lake.
High voltage will be great although I'm champing at the bit to know who else is playing on Sunday. Please let it include Focus and Argent 
Edited by richardh - March 24 2010 at 15:46
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
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Posted: March 23 2010 at 20:59 |
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Bitterlogger is right.
IMHO Works 1 was as if ELP confused their 'Tales' with their solo albums as Yes kept their worlds apart.
Works 2 is not so bad, as an album. But Works should have catapulted ELP to PF heights but perhaps just blurred the issue with the bland ballads and soundtrack fusion from Carl Palmer.
I do have to say that their live albums are excellent performances. There is the caveat that some of the performances are licensed and disguised (especially moments of WBMFTTSTNE) as new(ish) issues. Vut the 1996 live is a great performance, as is the King Biscuit release.
The bootleg Boxes (I have the first 2 only) are fine performances but given the audience sourced recordings and the one board, - a somewhat muted 77 set they should be appraoched with caution.
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Bitterblogger
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Joined: November 04 2007
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Posted: March 23 2010 at 20:28 |
b4usleep wrote:
Debut XXXXX
Tarkus XXXXX
Trilogy XXXXX
Pictures at an Exhibition XXXXX
Brain Salad Surgery XXXXX
Works Vol.1 XXX
Works Vol.2 XXXX
Love Beach X
Black Moon XXX
In the Hot Seat (No Idea)
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That's what's wrong. In The Hot Seat is barely better. And I don't think there are many who would rank Works Vol. 2 as highly. So there's quite a fall-off after the halfway point.
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geoffbarra
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Posted: March 23 2010 at 19:28 |
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Lemming
Hi
I guess I understand your point of view - taking this song (Daddy) on face value - however, living through a (very) similar experience - thank the Lord though with a much happier ending!!! it obviously has more meaning to me than the 'average' (not that I am suggesting in any way that you're average LOL) listener.
- Which goes back to my point about music being totally and simply a matter of opinion - without which we would not have forums like this to meet. (well above 'average') new people!
One thing though - whatever the merits - or otherwise, of a particular song no one can possibly argue about the relative talents of these three outstanding musicians.
...looking forward to seeing the old gits back together for the High Voltage Festival in London this summer...!
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Without Prog - where would wise men be...?
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
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Points: 11415
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Posted: March 22 2010 at 23:41 |
geoffbarra wrote:
I have been following this topic for some time - and am pleased to discover many like-minded ELP fans.
Keith Emerson was my teen idol - an amazing musician and showman who had the same hairstyle that I had (or was that the other way round?).
Of course music is simply a matter of personal taste and 5 stars - or no stars for an album is just a matter of opinion.
I love ALL of ELPs albums and rate each 5 stars.
Pirates and Officer and a Gentleman are (in my opinion) fantastic marriages of atmospheric music with story telling and emotional lyrics - that no other band has even attempted.
'Benny the Bouncer', 'Jeremy Bender' and and even 'The sheriff' are great 'pub' songs - and 'Daddy' is one of the most poignant songs I have ever heard....and the Piano Concerto, I think, is an awesome piece of music....
ELP had so many different sounds - that ALL their music is unlikely to appeal to EVERYONE - but in all honesty they could probably make even rap appealing - to me.
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Excellent post certainly but THIS ! Surely not ? Who am I to ride roughshod over personal taste but Daddy is one of the most shamefully manipulative and disingenuous little heart tuggers I have heard in a long, long while. Perhaps ELP could make rap appealing (perish the thought) but not even ELP can make In the Hot Seat appealing 
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What's wrong with ELP?
