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Philéas View Drop Down
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why do Indie bands consider themselves pr
    Posted: September 28 2007 at 10:26
Originally posted by ShipOfFools ShipOfFools wrote:

I think it's currently hip to call yourself progressive, for some reason. I've noticed that myself.



It is becoming quite hip, yeah. It could have been a great thing, however the majority of the bands calling themselves progressive are not. Which is a shame, because it makes people ignore similar new bands who actually are progressive.

Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:

I'm susha smrt 15 yr olde lawl




Indeed that seems to be the case.


Edited by Philéas - September 28 2007 at 10:30
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Points: 107 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2007 at 01:48

I think it's currently hip to call yourself progressive, for some reason. I've noticed that myself.



Edited by ShipOfFools - September 28 2007 at 01:49

"Better than a thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace" - Buddha
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Points: 7744 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 17:47
I'm susha smrt 15 yr olde lawl
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 17:40
Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:



Yes, too right. Emo was a short lived movement during the - what was it? late 80s? - called Emotionally Charged Hardcore-Punk. hardcore-PUNK!


It continued during the 90's, but was dead at the end of the decade. Mid 80's to mid 90's, kind of. It's definitely dead these days.

It's good to see someone enlightened though!


Edited by Philéas - September 27 2007 at 17:42
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Points: 7744 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 17:36
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

Originally posted by BroSpence BroSpence wrote:



First of all, emo, indie and punk are completely different genres with very distinctive qualities that make the different.



Don't fool yourself. Real Emo was a subgenre of Punk.

Emo doesn't exist anymore though.

Recommended reading

No, those MTV-bands are not Emo. They are Pop-Punk or Alternative Rock, sometimes mixed with watered-down Metal-isms. They are massproduced by major labels with the sole purpose of earning said labels more money. That's the complete opposite of what Emo was about.

And it never was about slitting your wrists either.




Yes, too right. Emo was a short lived movement during the - what was it? late 80s? - called Emotionally Charged Hardcore-Punk. hardcore-PUNK!
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 17:25
Originally posted by BroSpence BroSpence wrote:



First of all, emo, indie and punk are completely different genres with very distinctive qualities that make the different.



Don't fool yourself. Real Emo was a subgenre of Punk.

Emo doesn't exist anymore though.

Recommended reading

No, those MTV-bands are not Emo. They are Pop-Punk or Alternative Rock, sometimes mixed with watered-down Metal-isms. They are massproduced by major labels with the sole purpose of earning said labels more money. That's the complete opposite of what Emo was about.

And it never was about slitting your wrists either.


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Points: 2614 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 16:35
Originally posted by activetopics activetopics wrote:

I was browsing Myspace music for  progressive bands and what came up with was frightening; many of the bands were emo, indie, punk, or a combination of the three (as if there were a difference). My question to everybody out there is, how in the Hell do these idiots consider their music to be in the progressive vein at ALL?! It all sounds the same...Confused


First of all, emo, indie and punk are completely different genres with very distinctive qualities that make the different.

Secondly, Indie is a misused term that is often used to associate many artists in a genre that don't actually fit, kind of like your problem of finding non-prog artists when looking for prog. 

Here is a good explanation of the term Indie Rock:

Quote Indie rock takes its name from "independent," which describes both the do-it-yourself attitudes of its bands and the small, lower-budget nature of the labels that release the music. The biggest indie labels might strike distribution deals with major corporate labels, but their decision-making processes remain autonomous. As such, indie rock is free to explore sounds, emotions, and lyrical subjects that don't appeal to large, mainstream audiences -- profit isn't as much of a concern as personal taste (though the labels do, after all, want to stay in business). It's very much rooted in the sound and sensibility of American underground and alternative rock of the '80s, albeit with a few differences that account for the changes in underground rock since then. In the sense that the term is most widely used, indie rock truly separated itself from alternative rock around the time that Nirvana hit the mainstream. Mainstream tastes gradually reshaped alternative into a new form of serious-minded hard rock, in the process making it more predictable and testosterone-driven. Indie rock was a reaction against that phenomenon; not all strains of alternative rock crossed over in Nirvana's wake, and not all of them wanted to, either. Yet while indie rock definitely shares the punk community's concerns about commercialism, it isn't as particular about whether bands remain independent or "sell out"; the general assumption is that it's virtually impossible to make indie rock's varying musical approaches compatible with mainstream tastes in the first place. There are almost as many reasons for that incompatibility as there are indie-rock bands, but following are some of the most common: the music may be too whimsical and innocent; too weird; too sensitive and melancholy; too soft and delicate; too dreamy and hypnotic; too personal and intimately revealing in its lyrics; too low-fidelity and low-budget in its production; too angular in its melodies and riffs; too raw, skronky and abrasive; wrapped in too many sheets of Sonic Youth/Dinosaur Jr./Pixies/Jesus & Mary Chain-style guitar noise; too oblique and fractured in its song structures; too influenced by experimental or otherwise unpopular musical styles. Regardless of the specifics, it's rock made by and for outsiders -- much like alternative once was, except that thanks to its crossover, indie rock has a far greater wariness of excess testosterone. It's certainly not that indie rock is never visceral or powerful; it's just rarely -- if ever -- macho about it. As the '90s wore on, indie rock developed quite a few substyles and close cousins (indie pop, dream pop, noise-pop, lo-fi, math rock, post-rock, space rock, sadcore, and emo among them), all of which seemed poised to remain strictly underground phenomena.
-AMG


Third, I believe a lot of bands mislabel themselves in different genres as a joke because some people get a kick out of the fact that death metal band X labeled themselves as teen pop-folk-jazz.  It happens frequently. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2007 at 22:11
i guess emo's think theyhave progressed from punk ?>??? HAHAHA
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2007 at 09:56
Originally posted by chamberry chamberry wrote:

Why can't indie, punk or emo bands be labeled prog? If some jazz rock artists, metal, folk, and electronic artists can be labeled prog, why can't they do the same? I've heard modern bands that sound like those 3 "genres" and still have prog rock qualities in their music.

Senseless generalization, that's all I see when reading the first post.



Spot on chamberry! Especially the last sentence! Clap
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2007 at 22:49
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

"Indie" just means "Independent (of the music businnes)"; there are a lot of indie bands which are prog. Embryo, for example, were an indie band for a while when their albums appeared on "Schneeball", a German independent label. "Indie" only stands for the marketing and distribution of the band, not for the musical content at all.
 
Very similar to what I said... It's very curious and ironic how, in the end, that supposed "genre" called indie is really created by the record labels to promote bands that USED to be indie but are nothing like it now... they try to reach the audience that thinks that everything that isn't commercial is good..... but "indie" has just as big a musical meaning as "ketchup"....
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2007 at 12:12
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:


And then, don't forget that many people don't distinguish between 'progressive' and 'prog' as we tend to do here. Therefore, they  may think that, if their music contains elements that don't belong to the mainstream, they can be automatically called 'progressive'.


I've seen many homepages of those kind of bands and they usually rather call themselves "experimental" than "progressive" ... not even Coheed and Cambria try to "claim" their prog status.Wink
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Points: 10261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2007 at 11:58
"Indie" just means "Independent (of the music businnes)"; there are a lot of indie bands which are prog. Embryo, for example, were an indie band for a while when their albums appeared on "Schneeball", a German independent label. "Indie" only stands for the marketing and distribution of the band, not for the musical content at all.


Edited by BaldFriede - August 12 2007 at 12:03


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Points: 3839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2007 at 10:52
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by unicorn coffee unicorn coffee wrote:

The easy answer is that myspace's given genres dont give you many choices, and the ones they do, nobody uses-- so it's quite difficult to describe a post-rock band for instance, and the band may end up using the term "progressive"
But post-rock is progressive, why not.Ouch
 


Yeah, I use experimental/ambient/progressive to describe a post-rock band on myspace.
http://www.myspace.com/altaic
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Points: 7744 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2007 at 21:13
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:

Originally posted by ProgBagel ProgBagel wrote:

I know what you mean...there just bands that suck and just try to be different....plain and simple.

That's mean.

Well said!Clap

Thank you, I tried a number of different wordings and different vocabulary styles, execution dynamics, et cetera, and it took me a long time to perfect it, but there you are.
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Points: 20250 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2007 at 06:26
Indeed , in a few years progressive has stopped being a dirty word and almost becoming a quality and is even being used by groups who wants to distnguish them from the masses of other by saying they're more worthy by going deeper!
 
But Arcade Fire, Decemberists and most of these groups are simply not "prog" and not really progressive either, since indeed they're trying to simply sound different while remaining in the core of listeners! To me Muse only made prog-related album (absolution) and the rest is just average/good/excellent altrenative rock
 
 
Mike, I understand where you're coming from saying that the problem might be with the listener being the problem not telling those bands apart, but indeed, nowadays it is relatively hard to tell a band from another in a given genre. It is easy to confuseMusewith Arcade Fire and Decemberists for those unitiated to it. You musthave already a solid experience. There are simply sooooo many bands trying to break through that they can all sound the same. This started to happen inthe 80's and is areal problem nowadays. This is also happening for those new groups inside "Prog", too!  This problem didn't exist before the 80's, (as in 60's and 70's) because there was enough space for every band to have its own sound.
 
 
 
 
 
I am about to demote Decemberist to prog-related, BTW!!
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 15:55
Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:

Originally posted by ProgBagel ProgBagel wrote:

I know what you mean...there just bands that suck and just try to be different....plain and simple.


That's mean.


Well said!Clap

I'm no expert on indie or anything, but I have to wonder at people who start threads calling bands idiots, or bandy about the word 'suck' with such ease. If I don't like a particular type of music, I just don't listen to it - I don't get a kick out of insulting those responsible for producing it.

As to why indie bands might want to call themselves prog, there might be lots of explanations. At the end of the day, though, if you consider how unfashionable prog is ordinarily thought to be, it could be almost seen as a compliment, even if the bands are not what we would consider prog.

And then, don't forget that many people don't distinguish between 'progressive' and 'prog' as we tend to do here. Therefore, they  may think that, if their music contains elements that don't belong to the mainstream, they can be automatically called 'progressive'.
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Points: 7991 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 15:40
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Well... I said that indie=suck is not a rule... but when you mention The Icelandic Ros....Tongue
 
The Decemberists indie? Come on! Thay may HAVE BEEN indie, but since when is an band released by EMI/CAPITOL "indie"?Confused 
 
INDIE is NOT a genre.... it's just INDEPENDENT music, hence, unknown, unsigned music... The music industry tries to sell you the idea of "indie" music as a genre.. it's not genre, it has no specific format, musical elements, etc... It's indie because at some point it was underground and the music industry moguls want the people to associate that band with that time in the band's career to create an specific market, the "indie" market... But they've managed to create a music genre based more on economics and indutry reasons than on musical ones.....INDIE is just independent... If you take the bait and start categorizing music as "indie" as if it was a musical genre, OK, but it's not... it's more of an "attitude-releated movement by music bands" than a musical genre....
 
Man how do people destroy music when they create genres just based on popularity and being signed to a big record label....Dead
 
You are my hero. Clap 
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 15:23
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

And we'll help when we add some bands to these website.... as we're so respected in the prog realm, it will be easy for indie bands that sound barely similar to others lited here to say "hey! we sound somewhat like band X, they're in PA, hence we're true prog rockers!"
 
We already have Indie bands here. Fans of the genre will claim Sigur Ros and The Decemberists as their own. Indie is a vague genre with sort of the same Prog/progressive distinction that we have in ours. There's bands who are Indie in the sense of the sound and bands who are indie in the sense of being independent. Most progressive bands tend to be independent also and here's were the confusion comes in. Plus many Post-Rock bands draw influence from Sonic Youth which are gods amoung Indie fans creating further dispute.
 
We haven't added any Indie bands to the archives except arguably The Decemberists, but they certainly have their full blown prog songs so I don't think there's many worries.
I can see them right now on the indie archives saying well Sigur Ros is independant in  their way of think but their not indie, like modest mouse, so I dont think that they merit an inclusion into the site.
 
the other guy says, who cares if they are "indie" or not the important part is the independant nature of the band.LOLWink
 
Well... I said that indie=suck is not a rule... but when you mention The Icelandic Ros....Tongue
 
The Decemberists indie? Come on! Thay may HAVE BEEN indie, but since when is an band released by EMI/CAPITOL "indie"?Confused 
 
INDIE is NOT a genre.... it's just INDEPENDENT music, hence, unknown, unsigned music... The music industry tries to sell you the idea of "indie" music as a genre.. it's not genre, it has no specific format, musical elements, etc... It's indie because at some point it was underground and the music industry moguls want the people to associate that band with that time in the band's career to create an specific market, the "indie" market... But they've managed to create a music genre based more on economics and indutry reasons than on musical ones.....INDIE is just independent... If you take the bait and start categorizing music as "indie" as if it was a musical genre, OK, but it's not... it's more of an "attitude-releated movement by music bands" than a musical genre....
 
Man how do people destroy music when they create genres just based on popularity and being signed to a big record label....Dead
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Points: 1882 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 14:19
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

And we'll help when we add some bands to these website.... as we're so respected in the prog realm, it will be easy for indie bands that sound barely similar to others lited here to say "hey! we sound somewhat like band X, they're in PA, hence we're true prog rockers!"
 
We already have Indie bands here. Fans of the genre will claim Sigur Ros and The Decemberists as their own. Indie is a vague genre with sort of the same Prog/progressive distinction that we have in ours. There's bands who are Indie in the sense of the sound and bands who are indie in the sense of being independent. Most progressive bands tend to be independent also and here's were the confusion comes in. Plus many Post-Rock bands draw influence from Sonic Youth which are gods amoung Indie fans creating further dispute.
 
We haven't added any Indie bands to the archives except arguably The Decemberists, but they certainly have their full blown prog songs so I don't think there's many worries.
I can see them right now on the indie archives saying well Sigur Ros is independant in  their way of think but their not indie, like modest mouse, so I dont think that they merit an inclusion into the site.
 
the other guy says, who cares if they are "indie" or not the important part is the independant nature of the band.LOLWink
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 14:00
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

And we'll help when we add some bands to these website.... as we're so respected in the prog realm, it will be easy for indie bands that sound barely similar to others lited here to say "hey! we sound somewhat like band X, they're in PA, hence we're true prog rockers!"
 
We already have Indie bands here. Fans of the genre will claim Sigur Ros and The Decemberists as their own. Indie is a vague genre with sort of the same Prog/progressive distinction that we have in ours. There's bands who are Indie in the sense of the sound and bands who are indie in the sense of being independent. Most progressive bands tend to be independent also and here's were the confusion comes in. Plus many Post-Rock bands draw influence from Sonic Youth which are gods amoung Indie fans creating further dispute.
 
We haven't added any Indie bands to the archives except arguably The Decemberists, but they certainly have their full blown prog songs so I don't think there's many worries.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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