News from Nick Barrett (Pendragon)

^ A good anecdote. We should look at this issue in the long run, too. And not just have a download of an album be a "financial loss," and end it there. It could easily make no difference.

For example: Hypothetically, I download "Ambient 1" by Brian Eno, love it and buy "Ambient" albums 2, 3 and 4. Had I not heard the first "Ambient" album, I might not have bought 2, 3, and 4. One could say that without my process, the artist would not have gained anything because I'd likely not have heard of the band. With my process, though the band did not get anything for "Ambient 1," but they would have gained the money from the 3 albums I subsequently bought. 3 albums versus 0 albums. But then again, there are many ways to find out if one likes an artist. The least efficient/productive way is to go by reviews or word of mouth without hearing the music at all. Artists have to face that their music will not be appreciated by everyone, and that one person blindly buying an album, disliking it, and not buying anything else is not a good thing. Gaining loyal fans, as long as not too many financial losses are incurred, is what matters. The only meaningful conclusion is a middle ground, where some downloads occur (the amount dependent on how available approved sources of the band's music samples are) and fans are gained and kept.

Artists cannot and should not expect people to blindly buy their music without sampling it or hearing about it through promo sorts of deals (reviews, etc).

That can work against the artist, too. I know I've put off buying Jethro Tull's debut for at least 3 years because it doesn't appeal to me much, from what I've heard in reviews. Should artists get angry at reviewers for depriving them a financial gain by influencing my purchasing opinions?

I only donwload what I cant buy, wheater it is too expensive or just plainly unreachable... it´s not the ideal way, but Im not gonna restrain myself to a lot of good music because of it

Dang, now I'm feeling a bit guilty for purchasing secondhand! 

But at least I don't download illegally (actually, even legally)- it's killing the album! But it's apparently the new business thing, so I'm up for whatever gives the artist more money. I just don't want a death knell for the CD- when I buy something, I like something to show for it, not just an arbitrary file on my computer.

 I must say though, it certainly helps when an artist makes sample songs or clips available. I am much more likely to purchase their music if I can at least get a feel for what they do. But I don't like hearing all or even most of it- takes the fun out of the first spin!


Edited by Arsillus - May 20 2007 at 23:15

I remember my first Pendragon experience. I ordered a Pendragon CD through Half.com, only to have some sort of irish celtish folk band by the same name arrive at my house. I bought the digipak Masquerade Overture a few months later and really was blown away by it.

E

Here's my story of Pendragon. Until the beginning of last year I never heard of them. Then, through reading posts on this site, I learned that Pendragon exists and made a lot of records, and some are considered quite good. I downloaded two of these records from one of these Russian sites. I love the music. In september last year, I bought 2 tickets to see them live (Bunde, pRockFest, 15 November I think). I was so impressed with their performance that when I got home, I immediately ordered the DVD "And Now Everybody To The Stage". In January I bought a copy of the CD "The World" in a regular CD shop here in my home town. Recently I ordered "Neo", "The Window of Life", and "Not of this World" from Pendragon's own website.

Nick Barrett wrote: Why I don't come over a a good businessman on the programme is probably because I don't like greed...one little bit, or ripping off kids, or being mercenary, in my view a good businessman is someone who can judge a situation and act accordingly and fairly, it takes a lot more than, being mercenary, loudmouthed , hard on fellow human beings and lacking integrity, of course there are those that are...but I don't like them!

Thanks for taking the time and answering my question, Nick. Best of luck to you and the band. I thoroughly enjoy Pendragon's music and hope it endures. Also, I'll do my best in supporting the band, as I'm sure countless others from this site (and beyond) will, too.

My personal favorites:
Not Of This World
Masquerade Overture
Believe

E

Edited by E-Dub - May 19 2007 at 22:21

Yes, the OOP thing is something of a burden but yes, the best thing to do is to wait for a reprint. I often look at DVDs/CDs on EBay that are deleted/hard to find now and they tend to go for silly prices and I can't be doing with that...

Edited by salmacis - May 17 2007 at 16:15

Hi Nick, a few months ago there was another Channel 4 show called 'Get Your Act Together' where Harvey Goldsmith took some supposedly flagging careers and tried to resurrect them. One show had NWOBHM legends Saxon. I didn't see the show (the finale of 'Life On Mars' was on..) but apparently, Saxon and their management were made to look utterly incompetent at the hands of Channel 4 as well. Apparently, Marillion were approached for this too but they turned it down...

Edited by salmacis - May 17 2007 at 15:16

Hi E Dub, we have worked with Greg for many years and know he is a top guy, we sell directly to him, and out of a typical CD we sell to him I guess we would get in the area of $9 + shipping [more for a DVD..but then our costs are higher for DVDs so...] but it depends on the title/current exchange rates etc. This a fair price. It is true to say dealers do make good money on their sales I think , but it can be a helluva risky business in some cases as people like Greg take our stuff on a 'finished product ' basis...ie: he pays for everything he orders, not like some distributors who only pay for what they sell [and return the rest if sales slow up,,,, but they often sell bigger amounts, so it's swings and roundabouts mate!]
We also understand that people like Greg have a good reputation and folk will feel comfortable buying from him, which in turn is important to us too. It's about a kind of 'long distance team work'...without the likes of Greg, we wouldn't get the number of sales...so it's good for us that people will get cds from either us or from Greg.

Glueman said "So, keep buying from bands but also keep using indies like Greg Walker, Doug Larson and UK's Malcolm Parker at GFT/Cyclops"

Quite right too...for us at least this is good , because personally I like dealing with people who take an interest in what we do, they usually know one or two radio stations who they will talk into playing some prog, and like Greg put on things like Progfest, this is how the prog life force survives, one big network that ebbs and flows!

Easy Livin: Phew....have you got a couple of hours mate??? While I think Antonia [the producer] was very brave to show the so called 'teen tycoons' disregard for musical integrity, you have to remember the level of 'staging' in programmes like these, it is unbelievable! Eg:, Michael, the guy who was pushing the Rock School idea, said to me when the cameras were off, "geeeeeezzzz....pleeeeeease don't think this was MY IDEA!!!!!!"...ha ha ha.....hotdog!!!!! Also, these guys were not quite as big tycoons as you might think, one of them only 'turning over' TURNING OVER £50k a year...that really is not 'tycoon status' in my book!!!!! They were cheerfully hopeless with people and team building, they were very young and had no real life experiences, for them getting money was king, they wouldn't last a year in a band where you have sooooo many considerations to take into account. Like diplomacy, building loyalty, working well when the chips are down, utter belief...the list could go on forever.
The programme made me look like 'not a very good business man', but actually I am. Pendragon did very well in the late 80's and 90's , this was when I took over from our then managers from a £12k debt and started Toff Records, got a distribution deal with Pinnacle in the UK [the UK's largest independent distributors] I also negotiated the return of all our publishing copyrights from Charisma Publishing [so we now fully own all the rights to our songs] and negotiated with EMI for the license to re release The Jewel, 9.15 Live and The Rest Of. In the 90's Pendragon was financially extremely strong, and getting stronger as we could afford to make regular albums, go touring and even got to the point where we were doing major radio advertising campaigns on Virgin and Capital Radio.
Why I don't come over a a good businessman on the programme is probably because I don't like greed...one little bit, or ripping off kids, or being mercenary, in my view a good businessman is someone who can judge a situation and act accordingly and fairly, it takes a lot more than, being mercenary, loudmouthed , hard on fellow human beings and lacking integrity, of course there are those that are...but I don't like them!
What they didn't say in the programme regarding the Rock School for example was:
A] down the road in Swindon [2 miles away] there is a brilliant Rock School already running with proper teachers and equipment and lots of rooms as they used the local college, for this they charged £50 a term, so about once a week for 12 weeks say. The Teen Tycoons thought I should charge £20 a lesson per person, costing the kids £240 each for the same 12 week period......sorry but this is just plain incompetent pie in the sky day dreamer talk!

B ] Michael said on the programme that because I refused to charge the kids, I lost out on £600 or thereabouts, which makes it sound like, 'wow, what an idiot...he just said goodbye to £600 in one day'...what they didn't tell you is that their figures just don't stack up, out of the five people we did have doing the rock school assuming they would have paid £20 each for 2 days would have been £200. Again...utter incompetent pie in the sky day dreamer talk!

C] Someone asked why, if we were not going to follow their advice did we go to the teens tycoons in the first place.
Simple...it was free telly! We need all the exposure we can get, when they first approached us they said the programme was about businesses that has been going a long time that had hit some problems due to unforeseen circumstances......perfect we thought, we can talk about how record sales have suffered under the realm of free illegal downloading, oddly enough, they were not the slightest bit interested in this factor, as you can see it is not even mentioned in the programme.

What I think the teen tycoons didn't realise is that Pendragon is a sturdy beast that has been through good and bad, and survived for 30 years, I take responsibility for 99% of our troubles....one has to take responsibility for oneself, good or bad , ups and downs, it, I believe is the essence of life!
I do however think Pendragon will still be churning out tunes long after those teen tycoons are dribbling away to themselves in an old people's home sucking on a digestive biscuit through a straw with a cup of milky tea!