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PhideauxFan 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2007
Location: France
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 Topic: Why many people dislike The Flower Kings
Posted: December 31 2007 at 05:08 |
The Flower Kings is a band I liked when I discovered the " modern underground prog" about ten years ago. And I bought many albums of them but I have only kept Stardust We Are. I have fixed the problems I have with TFK: Roine's Stolt voice, the musical style to close to Yes (I am not a great fan of them) and the duration of the cds (too long, too long, just 50 mn would be enough). I also don't like pretentious musicians. Look at their website: they announce that they are the best progressive rock band. Or maybe I am wrong, and this is swedish humour i don't understand! 
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
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Points: 2755
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 03:16 |
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I like the Flower Kings, but I must say that when I listen to something by them for the first time I end up saying "Well that bit sounds like something off SEBTP," and then about a minute later "That bit sounds like '80's King Crimson" and then about a minute and a half later, "and that sounds like something Yes might do." I like them but they remind me of every other band I've ever liked, almost.
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stonebeard
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Location: NE Indiana
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 01:22 |
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Too much noodling solos and lots of notes with no direction or inspiration. Sounds fine, but kinda feels like theres no soul or meaning to it all. Some moments of brilliance ("Stardust We Are"). Overall, very benign. And this is coming from a huge Neo Prog fan.
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heyitsthatguy
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Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 00:38 |
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HEY GUYS I HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT A BAND AS WELL AND I CAN TYPE IT REALLY BIG LIKE THIS SO I'M MORE IMPORTANT
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Posted: December 30 2007 at 20:19 |
 The T wrote:
micky wrote:
TFK? .. hmmm
don't dislke at all..... they committed the greater sin to me of simply being boring and derivative.
any one who wants a NM- copy of Space Revolver just PM me.. send me a few bucks for postage.. and I'll mail you damn thing.. It doesn't even sit with my prog albums.. right now is right between Fleetwood Mac and The Vince Guaraldi Trio
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Micky, first DT, now TFK....Ok... choose your gun..... and take 12 steps.....
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hahhaha... that's why I didn't get a X-mas card from you . Figured there was a reason hahhaha. 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
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Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: December 30 2007 at 17:15 |
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Avant-garde stuff, The Flower Kings? I have never heard any material of theirs that struck me as avant-garde. All I've heard has struck me as regressive and derivative (or as some prefer to say, heavily influenced). A truly avant-garde band is innovative and progressive. Nor do I think they have much in common with Avant-Prog from what I know (not that bands that are included in that category need be innovative, new, and truly progressive). Nothing wrong with being influenced, music is not born in a vacuum, but The Flower Kings come across as rather unusually regressive (retro-Prog) to me. Maybe I've heard the wrong stuff, oh wait, I did once hear Retropolis and it didn't strike me as avant-garde, au contraire. It was derivative and retro. Nor did it strike me as really influenced by avant-garde music at the time.
I find the band incredible tedious to listen to. I haven't found anything anywhere approaching sublime about this band. Incredibly dull to my ears. Bottom of the barrel for me, along with bands such as Spock's Neard and Marillion, which were also mentioned by prog-expert #1. The musicians are pretty talented, but the music seems so uninspired and tedious. Bland, boring, banal... And I really can't stand the AOR influence. It's a bad band for me, but if others enjoy it, yay for them. For me, popular Prog today mostly sucks (chamber rock/ so-called Avant Prog today, on the other hand, is a different story... As but one example, I'll take Yugen's 2006 album any day over Paradox Hotel).
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Ghandi 2
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Joined: February 17 2006
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Posted: December 29 2007 at 17:12 |
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Hahaha, I don't know what knowledge you have, but everyone I've talked to dislikes them because they find them boring, too SIMPLE, and too AOR influenced. I don't have any of their albums, but what I've heard supports that. I love the avant-garde, and they aren't avant at all, and neither are Spock's Beard or Marillion. One particularly infamous forummember (forgot his name now, he's been gone for a while) said that if you took the bridge from a Boston song that he heard at the dentist's office and made it less complex, it would sound indistinguishable from a TFK song (other than the vocalist mispronouncing children all th time). He really hated them a lot, but I more or less agree with him. With so many areas of prog still unexplored, if you're interested in creating anything new at all there's no reason to flirt with AOR.
That prog metal swipe was completely unnecessary, and from what I've seen extremely inaccurate.
Don't use "in conclusion" in a forum post, it makes you look like a t**t.
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prog-expert #1
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Joined: December 24 2007
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Posted: December 29 2007 at 02:23 |
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People tend to dislike the Flower Kings because they are fairly Avant-Garde for a somewhat mainstream Progressive band. They write music that is technical, and has lots of complex harmonies and rhythms (eg. most of the Retropolis album, Circus Brimstone, Unorthodox Dancinglesson, ect...). However, they also write a lot of music that is easy to listen to (eg. End on a High note, Man of the World, and What if god is alone). For a lot of prog bands, this works, but it doesn't for TFK, because their avant-garde stuff is so difficult to, for want of a better term, swallow. they usually must be listened to many times before you start to apreciate them truly. Some prog fans, believe it or not, are not willing to do this, and if they don't like something straight away (or at least after two listens,) they imediately dismiss it as not worth their while. This sort of automatically ailienates them from most potentioal audiences (because the people who only like the easy-to-listen-to stuff will not like the avant-garde stuff, and people who like the avant-garde stuff more will think the easy tracks are bad tracks). Then there's the fact that many so-called prog fans are very picky, and only like, say prog metal or something. That is another problem that some people have with the Flower Kings, because it is very hard to classify the boundaries of Flower Kings, because all their stuff is so different. They lack consistency, which to some fans, the ones who really appreciate and understand music, this makes them interesting. However, most people (sadly) are not like that. That is the reason why, instead of bands like The Flower Kings, Marrilion and Spock's Beard are wallowing in the low levels of the music charts, while musicians like Britney Spears, Kanye West and Just Timberlake are constantly at the top of the charts.
In conlusion, I believe the Flower Kings are not as popular as the other leading forces in prog rock today, because they can't be settled into a firm niche in the community of progressive music. Personally, they are one of my favorite bands, but then again, I have a fairly extensive knowledge of the technical aspect of music.
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richardh
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Posted: November 25 2007 at 04:59 |
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micky
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Posted: November 24 2007 at 22:49 |
Teh_Slippermenz wrote:
I like a few of the songs by The Flower Kings. They're not that bad.
I've never actually heard any of their albums, however.
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see my previous post.... cheapest near mint copy of a Flower Kings album you'll ever find Send me postage... and it's yours...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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SoundsofSeasons
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: Arizona -- USA
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Points: 221
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Posted: November 24 2007 at 18:45 |
fuxi wrote:
Hi the T,
I've been enjoying symphonic prog since 1975, and I'm very glad that bands such as the Flower Kings exist. Even though they are often derivative, I admire the fact that they are trying to (re-)create the thrills that only prog can give you. Some of their pieces, 'Stardust we are', for example, I find really exciting.
But let's try to find an honest way to answer your question. One thing that often irritates me about TFK is their lyrics, and the way they are sung. As far as I can tell, most of their lyrics are full of echoes from old Yes and Genesis material, used in a rather inept way. Try as he might, Roine Stolt just isn't Peter Gabriel. Part of the problem is that he's not a native speaker of English. Part is that he keeps spouting the most annoying flower power nonsense. As for his singing, at first I was impressed by his voice (Wow, someone who sounds like John Wetton!) and I can imagine that he carries you away when you see him live. But on CD his never-ending ENTHUSIASM quickly gets on my nerves. (I've got exactly the same problem with Neal Morse.) Some moderation (and a hired lyricist) might do TFK good.
I understand you're a huge fan, so please don't feel offended by this. You asked the question, and I tried to answer it. Meanwhile, I'm definitely going to keep watching TFK's career! |
I never thought of the fact that Neal Morse may come off TOO enthusiastic in his music. That's sort of strange to me, because i feel he is truly genuinely enthusiastic, and not just 'faking it' so to speak. Then again, maybe you think he's genuine too and you just don't care. I can't say i have an opinion on TFK's because i haven't listened to much of anything by them, but as for Neal Morse, you have to understand that he's probably more passionate about his work than just about any other prog artist out there.
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1 Chronicles 13:7-9
Then David and all Israel played music before God with all their might, with singing, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on cymbals, and with trumpets.
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Teh_Slippermenz
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Joined: September 11 2007
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Posted: November 23 2007 at 19:23 |
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I like a few of the songs by The Flower Kings. They're not that bad.
I've never actually heard any of their albums, however.
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Visitor13
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Posted: November 21 2007 at 11:13 |
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Heh, I wonder how many people here dislike The Flower Kings' music just because it's made by The Flower Kings.
If Genesis reformed and recorded an album that matched, say, "Space Revolver" note for note, we'd be flooded with reviews proclaiming a "triumphant return to the golden age".
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Chicapah
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 21:05 |
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Here's my story and I'm sticking with it. I got my first Flower Kings CD "Sum" about 6 weeks ago and it sounded so complex to me that I didn't like it at first. Then, after listening to it for about 2 weeks I began to realize that it was flat out amazing (see my review for more details). I just got "Space Revolver" two days ago and since I had a bit of a road trip today I took it in my car for my first go round. I can't believe how great it is and it didn't take 10 plays to "get it," either. These guys are GOOD. They are everything I love about symphonic prog and I can tell that I will be adding to my FK collection over time.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Harry Hood
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:45 |
I really don't hear any "plagerism" in the Flower Kings music. I actually love the way they combine a diverse array of influences into a prog gumbo. And their influences don't just come from prog, Roine Stolt is also a huge Joni Mitchell fan, and a great bluesman as well.
My boyfriend (Man Overboard) introduced me to them when we first met. It took me a little while to get into them, but when it finally clicked, I fell in love with their music.
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:03 |
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I've got Stardust We Are. It's OK but didn't make me go "Oh my God, I've got to get my hands on all of their albums." Maybe one day it will click with me and I will explore the band further.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Firefly
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 07:01 |
It's hard for me to put my finger on what I don't like about The Flower Kings. I don't have a problem with bands not being original per se. I just don't like the Flower Kings because I find them incredibly....boring. Nothing about them appeals to me, not the songwriting, singing, etc.
But then again, I've heard worse, hahahahaha.
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The T
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Posted: November 16 2007 at 02:36 |
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I created this incredibly atrocious thread a few days after signing up to this website, and now I regret it. There's no need to ask this stupid question. Why do people dislike TFK? Well, because they DO! And they are free to do ti! Why does many people LOVE (like me) TFK? Because we DO! And we are free to do it. It's just taste. It so embarrases me to see this thread resurrected after like a year. I love Stolt and Co. and no amount of intellectual or sentimental gibberish will ever change that. The same will those who dislike them think about their feelings. Let this useless thing die.
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explodingjosh
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Posted: November 15 2007 at 20:14 |
King Crimson776 wrote:
You guys, The Flower Kings are a great band, way better than any band with pretensions of being progressive like The Mars Volta or Muse. The bands I just mentioned just homoginize old sounds and try to act like their music is something new, whereas TFK let their influences show. TFK can do this because they are actually a far more original band than TMV (I just like to pick on them) or many other new bands, in my opinion, and they sound better to me because of this. TFK use alot of jazz influence in their music, primarily in the bass and their use of horns. TMV also do, but I think that their sound is just homoginized salsa punk with some Rush whereas TFK use the jazzy parts as ends in themselves; because jazz just sounds good.
Afterall, when can we stop progressing? When have all the boundries been broken? Are we never free to do whatever we want, must we keep moving forward and shun all music that uses a proven formula and puts their own spin on it? To dislike TFK is fine, but to use the fact that they are not trying to progress rock music is not an argument. Many bands (like the ones I mentioned) aren't doing it either, they just want to seem like they are. But that is again beside the point, the percieved differences in the progressiveness of bands like TFK and bands like TMV is caused by the fact that TMV have the mindset that it is necessary to always move forward (or seem like you are, for fear of people finding out about your band's complete lack of musical substance), to never be at the point when anything can be done and bands are not dillusionally criticised for simply making great sounding music. |
You just don't like The Mars Volta for some weird reason. It really confuses me. I'm almost wanting to believe that it has nothing to do with the actual music, but your perception of it. And the "for fear of people finding out about your band's complete lack of musical substance" is almost insulting. Define "musical substance". If you mean complexity, well TMV is complexity on acid. If you mean memorable melodies (something of which TMV does not focus) , then that's just a matter of taste, whether you want that kind of thing in your music or not. Neither involves dillusion on the listener's part.
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MonkeyphoneAlex
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Posted: November 15 2007 at 18:22 |
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I love The Flower Kings, they've become one of my favorite bands recently, and I listen to music from all across the progressive spectrum.
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"Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST."
-FZ
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Why many people dislike The Flower Kings
