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White Feather View Drop Down
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Points: 71 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Suggestion for the top 100
    Posted: March 24 2006 at 09:42
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by White Feather White Feather wrote:

They need two lists, one for CD`s (keep it the same as it is) and another for each bands average (A band can only be mentioned on this list once and its based on culminating the entire body of work they have done then working out the average % they scored from their reviewer CD ratings. This will allow a fairer over view of many more other worthy bands that tend to get buried down the bottom , keep it as still a top 100 just like is done with the CD list.     

The idea behind this concept is to try and implement a system that works in a symbiosis , so one can keep the other in check

Hope it helps

That  systen has one small problem: Bands which had a "hot phase" of creativity and only produced mediocre albums afterwards would be seriously punished. I think that only the best albums of a band should be considered when calculating the average.

One thing I highly regard when I evaluate a prog band is how consistent they are, this is so important and should be rewarded, I believe 

Edited by White Feather
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Points: 12625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 05:07

Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:



People need to quit making threads about Genesis, ELP, Rush, and YES and start exposing more obscure bands that NEED to be exposed. There are plenty of "advanced" listeners on this site who just aren't sharing their knowledge with others. This is why we have 1000 threads about whether or not Genesis was overrated or how new bands "can never be like the old ones" because we talk about the SAME FOUR BANDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN


Yes there a re many threads like that and I simply ignore them and go into more interesting or relevant ones.

That is also whay I made up a thread for this kind of thing (I Recommend... ).

Plus there I have made a list of very good threads focusing on the non-mainstream prog. It is not a full and conclusive list, but it is a start. Some of you might have already seen it. Here it is:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19836& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;FID=42 - French

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17840& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;PN=1 - Spanish

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7256&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;PN=3 - Belgium (RIO/Avantgarde)

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19821& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;PN=1 - Scandinavia

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18860& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;PN=2 - Prog Videos on the net

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19749& amp; amp; amp; amp;FID=3 - German Folk Prog

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20015& amp; amp; amp;PN=1 - Russian prog

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20019& amp; amp; amp;PN=2 - Hungarian prog

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19927& amp; amp; amp;PN=1 - Japanese prog

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19985& amp; amp; amp;KW=US+ US prog

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20104& amp; amp; amp;KW=italian

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18490& amp; amp; amp;KW=italian

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17371& amp; amp; amp;KW=italian

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17066& amp; amp; amp;KW=italian
Hanging Sounds

PA Index of prog music vendors


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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 04:15
I strongly disagree with the proposal.
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 03:54
I personally did not like the records of the Sky-label very much, but that's just my personal taste. But go ahead and post something about it; I promise I will respond, and not in a totally negative way.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Points: 3577 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 03:06
I know I have tried to start threads about lesser discussed artists (Nucleus for example), and I just got responses from the same three people. I think people are more prone to reply to something they know something about, pretty obvious. I'm not sure if a revised top 100 list would increase discussions of these lesser known or discussed artists, but I don't think it would do any harm to be sure.

By the way, I was thinking about starting a thread about the German Sky label, should I anticipate responses or not???  I guess it's worth a try anyways.
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 02:59
Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:

Originally posted by The Ryan The Ryan wrote:


the Top 100, but there are a billion ways to figure out about those artists. I spent some time going through the entire site (as much as I could), but if an album doesn't have the ratings to climb why should it be there? If I can find what I want (which is very often more obscure than the Top 100 list) why can't other people?

People need to quit making threads about Genesis, ELP, Rush, and YES and start exposing more obscure bands that NEED to be exposed. There are plenty of "advanced" listeners on this site who just aren't sharing their knowledge with others. This is why we have 1000 threads about whether or not Genesis was overrated or how new bands "can never be like the old ones" because we talk about the SAME FOUR BANDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN

Ha, Jean and I have been doing this all the time; but does it lead to anything? As long as there is no change in perception too it will not lead to anything. We have started dozens of threads about artists and records that we think should get more recognition, with the sad result that usually we don't get any response to them at all. Maybe a different top 100 list might change that.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Points: 29474 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 02:42
A Top 100 albums is pointless anyway.There should be a top ten overall then a top ten by different categories and then lastly a top twenty by artist overall.This would be a lot more interesting IMO.The problem with the Top 100 is not the top 10 or so which generally doesn't change but the bottom 10 or 20 which changes all the time and so is meaningless.
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Points: 415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 02:33
A list of best prog bands would be interesting, me thinks. Just to see which bands are most popular on this site.
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Points: 651 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 02:04
Originally posted by martinprog77 martinprog77 wrote:

HOW ABOUT TO MAKE ''THE TOP 1000000000000000000000 ALBUNS''SO EVERYBODY PUT THEIR FAVORITES ONES AND THEM COMPLAINT THAT CLOSE TO THE EDGE SHOULD BE AT FIRST PLACE


is that a rhetorical question?

....




Edited by Hierophant
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Points: 2531 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 02:02
HOW ABOUT TO MAKE ''THE TOP 1000000000000000000000 ALBUNS''SO EVERYBODY PUT THEIR FAVORITES ONES AND THEM COMPLAINT THAT CLOSE TO THE EDGE SHOULD BE AT FIRST PLACE
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 01:51
Originally posted by White Feather White Feather wrote:

They need two lists, one for CD`s (keep it the same as it is) and another for each bands average (A band can only be mentioned on this list once and its based on culminating the entire body of work they have done then working out the average % they scored from their reviewer CD ratings. This will allow a fairer over view of many more other worthy bands that tend to get buried down the bottom , keep it as still a top 100 just like is done with the CD list.     

The idea behind this concept is to try and implement a system that works in a symbiosis , so one can keep the other in check

Hope it helps

That  systen has one small problem: Bands which had a "hot phase" of creativity and only produced mediocre albums afterwards would be seriously punished. I think that only the best albums of a band should be considered when calculating the average.
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 01:48

Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:


Exactly my point. People need to stop blaming the "system" and start doing something about it. Your favorite obscure bands not getting any recognition? Make threads about them. Share what you know.


 I did more than creating threads ... I created my own music website.

And there I will add charts that are like BaldFriede suggested. These are the charts that I will implement:

  • Best Band (judged by their best album)
  • Best Band (judged by their 2 best albums)
  • Best Band (judged by their 3 best albums)

Those lists will be much more useful for finding new bands for advanced listeners than the current list. Of course the classic "best album" list is useful too ... it's nice to look at and it's a good start for newbies. But as soon as you "drill down" to the genre lists the "best album" approach is not really useful anymore, because the top positions are simply clogged with the numerous albums of the established genre "giants" with 5 or more albums from each artist.
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Points: 71 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 00:40

They need two lists, one for CD`s (keep it the same as it is) and another for each bands average (A band can only be mentioned on this list once and its based on culminating the entire body of work they have done then working out the average % they scored from their reviewer CD ratings. This will allow a fairer over view of many more other worthy bands that tend to get buried down the bottom , keep it as still a top 100 just like is done with the CD list.     

The idea behind this concept is to try and implement a system that works in a symbiosis , so one can keep the other in check

Hope it helps



Edited by White Feather
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Points: 83 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 21:47
or they could just get rid of the poll in general so there's nothing to complain about. no more "i cant believe CTTTE is fourth, or ha, now SEBTP is first, or "i declare war on people who dont want dark side to be number one" or whatever.
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Points: 559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 21:36
Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:

Originally posted by The Ryan The Ryan wrote:

Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:

Originally posted by The Ryan The Ryan wrote:

the Top 100, but there are a billion ways to figure out about those artists. I spent some time going through the entire site (as much as I could), but if an album doesn't have the ratings to climb why should it be there? If I can find what I want (which is very often more obscure than the Top 100 list) why can't other people?



People need to quit making threads about Genesis, ELP, Rush, and YES and start exposing more obscure bands that NEED to be exposed. There are plenty of "advanced" listeners on this site who just aren't sharing their knowledge with others. This is why we have 1000 threads about whether or not Genesis was overrated or how new bands "can never be like the old ones" because we talk about the SAME FOUR BANDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN


It's peoples own choice, you can't make them like the same obscure things you do. I've learned that lesson many-a-time in my own personal life. I am not a veteran of this website, yet I get around. I hear lots of strange and crazy sounds here, not just Genesis and Yes. If people want to talk about Genesis and Yes all day I'm not going to stop them. Also see my last response in large font, stop complaining about albums please.

A top 100 list is not going to expose "obscure bands".

Find another solution.



Exactly my point. People need to stop blaming the "system" and start doing something about it. Your favorite obscure bands not getting any recognition? Make threads about them. Share what you know.




What are you talking to me for? Whether I am or am not a part of the problem, I didn't start this topic OR even complain about the list of albums. I stand by what I said, and don't disagree with the idea that obscure bands need to be shared.
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Points: 651 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 21:32
Originally posted by The Ryan The Ryan wrote:

Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:

Originally posted by The Ryan The Ryan wrote:

the Top 100, but there are a billion ways to figure out about those artists. I spent some time going through the entire site (as much as I could), but if an album doesn't have the ratings to climb why should it be there? If I can find what I want (which is very often more obscure than the Top 100 list) why can't other people?



People need to quit making threads about Genesis, ELP, Rush, and YES and start exposing more obscure bands that NEED to be exposed. There are plenty of "advanced" listeners on this site who just aren't sharing their knowledge with others. This is why we have 1000 threads about whether or not Genesis was overrated or how new bands "can never be like the old ones" because we talk about the SAME FOUR BANDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN


It's peoples own choice, you can't make them like the same obscure things you do. I've learned that lesson many-a-time in my own personal life. I am not a veteran of this website, yet I get around. I hear lots of strange and crazy sounds here, not just Genesis and Yes. If people want to talk about Genesis and Yes all day I'm not going to stop them. Also see my last response in large font, stop complaining about albums please.

A top 100 list is not going to expose "obscure bands".

Find another solution.



Exactly my point. People need to stop blaming the "system" and start doing something about it. Your favorite obscure bands not getting any recognition? Make threads about them. Share what you know.




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Points: 559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 21:25
Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:

Originally posted by The Ryan The Ryan wrote:

the Top 100, but there are a billion ways to figure out about those artists. I spent some time going through the entire site (as much as I could), but if an album doesn't have the ratings to climb why should it be there? If I can find what I want (which is very often more obscure than the Top 100 list) why can't other people?



People need to quit making threads about Genesis, ELP, Rush, and YES and start exposing more obscure bands that NEED to be exposed. There are plenty of "advanced" listeners on this site who just aren't sharing their knowledge with others. This is why we have 1000 threads about whether or not Genesis was overrated or how new bands "can never be like the old ones" because we talk about the SAME FOUR BANDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN


It's peoples own choice, you can't make them like the same obscure things you do. I've learned that lesson many-a-time in my own personal life. I am not a veteran of this website, yet I get around. I hear lots of strange and crazy sounds here, not just Genesis and Yes. If people want to talk about Genesis and Yes all day I'm not going to stop them. Also see my last response in large font, stop complaining about albums please.

A top 100 list is never going to expose "obscure bands".

Find another solution.



Edited by The Ryan
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Points: 651 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 21:13
Originally posted by The Ryan The Ryan wrote:

the Top 100, but there are a billion ways to figure out about those artists. I spent some time going through the entire site (as much as I could), but if an album doesn't have the ratings to climb why should it be there? If I can find what I want (which is very often more obscure than the Top 100 list) why can't other people?



People need to quit making threads about Genesis, ELP, Rush, and YES and start exposing more obscure bands that NEED to be exposed. There are plenty of "advanced" listeners on this site who just aren't sharing their knowledge with others. This is why we have 1000 threads about whether or not Genesis was overrated or how new bands "can never be like the old ones" because we talk about the SAME FOUR BANDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN




Edited by Hierophant
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Points: 559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 21:11

I've come up with one more thing.

Make a list of best bands, not best albums to go right under or above the Top 100 album list. This way all the somewhat unknown gems of the past four decades can "surface" or whatever you want to call it.
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Points: 559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 21:03

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

I don´t think it´s a good idea...the top 100 should be about best albums, not about putting 100 bands together...this way Yes or Genesis, which both have at least 5 excellent albums should leave 4 behind so we can put Styx in? jejeje I don´t think so...

But that's just my point. I definitely do not believe that only 6 or 7 bands made the best albums; but because some of these bands made one or two albums that are really excellent the rest of their albums get voted up their too by shere automatism, although they don't deserve it. There are a lot of better albums out there than the more mediocre works of these artists that just have a big lobby. And I don't think we will get Styx in there that way. We currently have more than 2300 artists in the database; that should somehow be represented in the top 100.

"I definitely do not believe that only 6 or 7 bands made teh best albums..."

Most people (including me) don't either but eventually you make a list so big (See "Top 500") that this no longer matters and everyone is happy. This new idea of yours seems okay for people who can't already find what they want, but I'd say to them that they need to get suggestions, look at genres and figure out what they truly like instead of leeching off of 100 albums.

The collective wisdom of everyone is far greater then that of the individual. Yours and my opinions on what albums should be included in the Top 100 list is only a tiny portion of how we think it should be. Obviously no one agrees, and obviously we can all pick how many stars for every single one of those albums, so to say your way is best only suites you and not the majority. Create a poll.

A true Top 100 list based on ratings (as it is now) is one of the only few ways to create something that reflects everyone's opinions.

Once again, I disagree with the order and how many albums from certain bands are up there but that is the choice everyone is given to vote the way they do. I suppose that's freedom or something? You won't hear me say the list isn't flawed to pieces though, but the initial idea of ratings and no limitations I feel works best for a "Top" album list.

I've come to realize there's a ton of great albums not represented on the Top 100, but there are a billion ways to figure out about those artists. I spent some time going through the entire site (as much as I could), but if an album doesn't have the ratings to climb why should it be there? If I can find what I want (which is very often more obscure than the Top 100 list) why can't other people?



Edited by The Ryan
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