Iran Crisis

^ I'm pretty much baffled Crimson.  He tries to play off Israel as one big European conspiracy in which the Holocaust was a supporting argument that was fabricated, but even for Europe this is extreme reasoning.  Surprisingly, Iran is one of the more tolerant and open societies in the Mid-East (for one they aren't Arabs so they don't hate Israel quite as much), but really their Gov't is nuts.  Statements like these do nothing to warm him up to Europe., and hes lost the US.

Note:  Mahmoud Abbas (Palestinian Prez)'s doctoral thesis also claimed that the Holocaust was really only 800,000 Jews at most.

"I think we have sufficiently talked about this matter and these Holocaust events need to be further investigated by independent and impartial parties," Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said at a news conference on Friday following a meeting with China's president.

"An event that has influenced so many diplomatic and political equations of the world needs to investigated and researched by impartial and independent groups," he said.

Ahmadinejad has come in for sharp criticism in Europe for repeatedly casting doubt on the Holocaust and calling for Israel to be destroyed or shifted to Europe.

On Monday, German Jews and politicians protested Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's repeated denial of the Holocaust while his country kicked off its World Cup campaign on Sunday, declaring that he would be unwelcome at the tournament.

About 1,200 people, according to police estimates, gathered in a downtown Nuremberg square, many waving Israeli flags.

In the end of May, during a Spiegel interview, Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying that he doubted the magazine would write 'the truth' about the Nazi genocide against Europe's Jews.

'We want to know whether this crime really happened or not. If so, then those responsible should be punished and not the Palestinians ... If it didn't happen, then the Jews have to go back where they came from,' he was quoted as saying.

He also played up the credentials of Western Holocaust deniers such as the British historian David Irving and echoed some of their views.

AP contributed to this report.

from Jpost.com

NetsNJFan wrote: ^ Sharon's cabinet was actually against the Iraq war, because they knew that the world would see them as the cause, and as for Netanyahu against a Palestinian state, I don't blame him at this point.  Gaza is pretty much a failed state as it is, why hand over mountains 2 miles from Tel Aviv when they are firing Qassam rockets from Gaza.  Israel doesn't need that from the West Bank as well.

I cant believe Sharon was opposed to that war. I know what his public line was, but Iraq hit Israel with Scud missiles in the first Gulf War, surely Sharon - privately - wanted them dealt with? Maybe not..

The international community is not helping the situation, but cutting off funds to the Palestinian authority. Gaza will remain a failed state unless the plight of the Palestinian people as a whole is given the same urgency as that of the Israeli people. Annexing and impoversing innocent people is going to purpetuate the violence, not curtail it. It would help if every Israeli PM who tried to bring about peace wasn't assassinated by extremist Jews.
    

NetsNJFan wrote: Blacksword wrote: NetsNJFan wrote: ^ I'm not saying the bomb is defensive, I'm saying Israel "may or may not having the bomb" is a deterrant Secondly, I'm not criticizing Iran getting a bomb here.  What I was criticizing was Blacksword incessantly bashing Israel out of nowhere, just like the rest of the world does, to divert attention from other issues. Oh please, Nets, with respect, your response is a tired one. 'Bashing Israel like the rest of the world does to divert attention from other issues' I was not bashing Israel, I was pointing out a double standard that has played a part in bringing us to where we are with instability in the ME. THAT is the issue we are forced to avoid discussing in the mainstream media. A culture has been created where any public criticism of Israeli policy is dismissed as anti-Semitic. It's a great way of shutting her critics up, and placing ALL the blame for the violence and instability on the Arab world. It's a two way street. What is the point of having international law if Israel, and a few selected countries that support her are exempt from it. If you want to see real bashing of Israel then go to the AlJazeera website and check out their news forum. The anti semitic filth posted on there is genuinely disturbing. I accept Israels right to exist, but I think their governments agenda is bigger than we realise, and extends beyond 'defence'.        and what exactly is this supposed agenda?

It depends who you choose to believe.

I believe their agenda is similar in principle to our own, that is to say our 'real' agenda. It's been said before, but if I have to say it again I will 'Oil' This is the primary reason we went into Iraq. All our claims of WMD etc had been rubbished by the UN, and even the 9/11 Commission conlcluded there was no Iraqi complicity in the attacks on 9/11.

Israel has benefited enormously from us securing the Iraqi oil, and of course one of their potential threats had been overthrown. Good you may say! Yeah, I agree but why all the lies. Surely going to war to protect our friends in Israel would have been a good enough reason in itself..

A coincidence perhaps, but in 1996, a white paper was drafted for then PM Netanyahu, entitled something like 'A new vision for securing the region' Netanyahu was opposed to the idea of a Palestinian state, and his paper outlined Israels concerns over Iraq, Iran and Syria. A desire to topple Saddams regime was expressed. The document was endorsed in washington by prominant neo conservatives, notably, Richard Perle. The rest is history as they say..

Netanyahu himself said, openly '9/11 was a good thing. I mean good for Israeli/US relations'


    

Blacksword wrote: stonebeard wrote: I'll tell you one thing. I will not go to war with Iran. [IMG]height=17 alt="Stern Smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> Go ahead, draft me. See how much I care. [IMG]height=17 alt="Stern Smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> If it's not a war I believe in, I won't fight for it. [IMG]height=17 alt="Stern Smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> Good for you!

I'll tell you one thing. I will not go to war with Iran.  Go ahead, draft me. See how much I care.  If it's not a war I believe in, I won't fight for it.

NetsNJFan wrote: ^ I'm not saying the bomb is defensive, I'm saying Israel "may or may not having the bomb" is a deterrant Secondly, I'm not criticizing Iran getting a bomb here.  What I was criticizing was Blacksword incessantly bashing Israel out of nowhere, just like the rest of the world does, to divert attention from other issues.

Oh please, Nets, with respect, your response is a tired one. 'Bashing Israel like the rest of the world does to divert attention from other issues'

I was not bashing Israel, I was pointing out a double standard that has played a part in bringing us to where we are with instability in the ME. THAT is the issue we are forced to avoid discussing in the mainstream media. A culture has been created where any public criticism of Israeli policy is dismissed as anti-Semitic. It's a great way of shutting her critics up, and placing ALL the blame for the violence and instability on the Arab world. It's a two way street. What is the point of having international law if Israel, and a few selected countries that support her are exempt from it.

If you want to see real bashing of Israel then go to the AlJazeera website and check out their news forum. The anti semitic filth posted on there is genuinely disturbing.

I accept Israels right to exist, but I think their governments agenda is bigger than we realise, and extends beyond 'defence'.

    

Edited by Blacksword - June 04 2006 at 07:30

Hmmm....trouble is when you argue, 1) Israel is entitled to have the bomb, to "defend" itself against the arab countries (and what bomb is "defensive"?), and 2) Israel (your words) is basically a "f+ck you" platform to the rest of world - well, then, you can hardly blame Iran if they did want a bomb? And, by your argument, faced with an illogical enemy who ignored the ROW, Iran would be equally as justified in having one, and we would be hypocritical to deny them!

VC: Good idea! 

So a sharp wit is a cowards weapon ???

Get new friends !!!