Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Quo Vadis Ukraine?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Quo Vadis Ukraine?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 16>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Quo Vadis Ukraine?
    Posted: November 13 2023 at 16:15
^ I think it would be more accurate to say that some of us are not happy to have our tax money sent to the Ukraine. 
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
Lewian View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 15149 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2023 at 16:02
^I think we have by now very well understood that you are not happy to have your tax money used for supporting the Ukraine.
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6801 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2023 at 08:11
Zelensky says " If you give us credit...We'll give you back money."   At the 0:50 point of the video.






Edited by omphaloskepsis - November 13 2023 at 08:18
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2023 at 14:42
^ More like boring and predictable. LOL

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - November 12 2023 at 14:43
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65603 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2023 at 14:29
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

This may be the most naive, unperceptive, unsophisticated thread currently on this site.   Not a surprise, I guess.   Only thing worse is the "Poetry" thread.
Agreed - it attracts vapid comments like this one. Wink
I know.  It must be annoying.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6801 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2023 at 13:48
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

The Washington Post reported back in August that martial law had been extended into November, and under the Ukrainian constitution, elections are not held during martial law. So, this is old news.


Actually, it's optional under Ukrainian law.  Zelensky could hold elections if he wanted to.  America held elections during the Civil War.  Zelensky can keep extending martial law. In other words, Zelensky could cancel elections for as long as he wants.  Nothing to stop Z from doing so.

On 20 March, President Zelenskyy signed a decree that merged all national television channels into one platform due to martial law. That same day, he signed a decree suspending the activities of eleven opposition political parties. Wink

Where does it say that it is optional in Ukrainian law?

And my original point was a rebuttal to your statement that "not many news agencies report on this recent action." They in fact did (many 5-6 days ago in response to Zelensky's comments), but was also reported way back in August. Wink

If you are correct then declaring martial law is tantamount to cancelling elections.  They are one and the same thing.  Bottom line: Elections are canceled.  That's how democracy works.  You ban all opposition parties and you make sure the media is government controlled.  

Ukraine's head of the military General Valerii Zaluzhnyi recently said the Ukraine war was in a stalemate.  Within a week after Zaluzhnyi's statements to the American press...Zelensky fired one of Zaluzhnyi's top generals and then the very next day Zaluzhnyi's top aide died at his own birthday party after being blown apart by a grenade. Zaluzhnyi got the message. Wink
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2023 at 13:41
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

This may be the most naive, unperceptive, unsophisticated thread currently on this site.   Not a surprise, I guess.   Only thing worse is the "Poetry" thread.


Agreed - it attracts vapid comments like this one. Wink
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
progaardvark View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 52608 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2023 at 13:17
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

The Washington Post reported back in August that martial law had been extended into November, and under the Ukrainian constitution, elections are not held during martial law. So, this is old news.


Actually, it's optional under Ukrainian law.  Zelensky could hold elections if he wanted to.  America held elections during the Civil War.  Zelensky can keep extending martial law. In other words, Zelensky could cancel elections for as long as he wants.  Nothing to stop Z from doing so.

On 20 March, President Zelenskyy signed a decree that merged all national television channels into one platform due to martial law. That same day, he signed a decree suspending the activities of eleven opposition political parties. Wink

Where does it say that it is optional in Ukrainian law?

And my original point was a rebuttal to your statement that "not many news agencies report on this recent action." They in fact did (many 5-6 days ago in response to Zelensky's comments), but was also reported way back in August. Wink

I installed a third ear so that I could eat pants and put cow pottery on the moon.


Edited by progaardvark - November 12 2023 at 13:31
----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65603 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2023 at 11:35
This may be the most naive, unperceptive, unsophisticated thread currently on this site.   Not a surprise, I guess.   Only thing worse is the "Poetry" thread.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6801 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2023 at 07:56
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

The Washington Post reported back in August that martial law had been extended into November, and under the Ukrainian constitution, elections are not held during martial law. So, this is old news.


Actually, it's optional under Ukrainian law.  Zelensky could hold elections if he wanted to.  America held elections during the Civil War.  Zelensky can keep extending martial law. In other words, Zelensky could cancel elections for as long as he wants.  Nothing to stop Z from doing so.

On 20 March, President Zelenskyy signed a decree that merged all national television channels into one platform due to martial law. That same day, he signed a decree suspending the activities of eleven opposition political parties. Wink


Edited by omphaloskepsis - November 12 2023 at 08:03
Back to Top
progaardvark View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 52608 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2023 at 07:45
The Washington Post reported back in August that martial law had been extended into November, and under the Ukrainian constitution, elections are not held during martial law. So, this is old news.
----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6801 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2023 at 15:55
Zelensky cancels elections.   Not many news agencies report on this recent action.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/11/08/vccp-n08.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-06/it-s-not-the-right-time-for-elections-in-ukraine-zelenskiy-says#xj4y7vzkg

https://www.newsweek.com/has-zelensky-canceled-ukraine-elections-what-happened-1842001




Edited by omphaloskepsis - November 11 2023 at 16:07
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6801 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2023 at 02:23
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

My current prediction, just briefly (since I said I'll keep out of the thread until november, but wth): The US are already starting to pull out of the war, and this will accelerate quickly. They made their profits, on a military level there is nothing to be gained, and they don't want a real conflict with Russia. So they'll let Russia take more territory, thereby defeating Ukraine, and move on to the next target (China/Taiwan). Which would be another way to quickly end the war, I suppose. Quick reminder: None of what I said are things I wish for - I'm just stoicly stating what I think is likely to happen.



I agree with everything, except I can't imagine America going to war with China. Can America be that stupid? Start a war with China on China's front porch? Wink That said, I didn't think The World would shut down for as long as it did.  

Well, turns out I was wrong and it's the middle east again. Well, at some point it will be China's turn, but obviously we're not there yet.



If America goes whole hog on Ukraine, the Middle East, and China, America will have to put troops on the ground.  America doesn't like fighting conflicts against armies with modern weapons. American youth do not like the word "DRAFT". Ukraine has lost almost ten times as many troops as America lost in Vietnam. American likes to bomb goat herders armed with riffles and pickups.  American troops don't want to fight an army like Russia...an army armed with artillery, hypersonic missiles, tanks, and fighter jets. Both China and Russia could sink an American aircraft carrier if they wanted to. 

African and South American countries are beginning to turn against American hegemony. That's why you've seen countries like Niger reach for their independence and control of their natural resources. I don't think America's young people want to fight a modern war.  As long as America fights proxy wars with Ukrainians dying for American corporations...the young people cheer.  The young people will change their tune overnight if they're threatened with a draft, foxholes, and muddy trench warfare. 

I still cannot fathom a war with China.  China has four times as many people as America. If America puts troops on the ground...it will be in the Middle East.  That's the kind of war America likes... against pickups and riffles.Wink
 




Edited by omphaloskepsis - November 06 2023 at 03:10
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2023 at 00:52
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

My current prediction, just briefly (since I said I'll keep out of the thread until november, but wth): The US are already starting to pull out of the war, and this will accelerate quickly. They made their profits, on a military level there is nothing to be gained, and they don't want a real conflict with Russia. So they'll let Russia take more territory, thereby defeating Ukraine, and move on to the next target (China/Taiwan). Which would be another way to quickly end the war, I suppose. Quick reminder: None of what I said are things I wish for - I'm just stoicly stating what I think is likely to happen.



I agree with everything, except I can't imagine America going to war with China. Can America be that stupid? Start a war with China on China's front porch? Wink That said, I didn't think The World would shut down for as long as it did.  

Well, turns out I was wrong and it's the middle east again. Well, at some point it will be China's turn, but obviously we're not there yet.
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2023 at 00:49
Ok, about a month has passed. As expected, attention is slowly shifting away from Ukraine. The money has been made, the assets have been moved (under the control of big US financial institutions), nothing more to gain - the obvious prediction is that when by the end of the year the entire Ukrainian army is dead, including women and disabled people, Ukraine will finally surrender (that is, no longer refuse to negotiate).

I think it's incredibly sad, but that doesn't make it any less true. Here's an article with further details, if anyone's interested. And of course, my dear Prog-jester, feel free to ridicule me as usual. 


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - November 06 2023 at 00:51
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
Prog-jester View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 05 2005
Location: Love Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 5909 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2023 at 15:43
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

we win the war in Ukraine

"we"? Didn't know you're Ukrainian

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

peace deal is a threat to Ukraine

as if russia never broke a peace deal before. But of course you don't care about Ukraine taking back our territories, our occupied cities, our kidnapped children, you just afraid russia will get nuclear if we EsCaLatE.

Well, they lost Kherson - nothing happened. They lost Kharkiv - nothing happened. Their fleet left Crimea and guess what? Yep, nothing happened. Ukrainian drones are flying into russian military bases on the russian soil - nothing.happened.

They won't do sh*t if they're shown who's the boss. It is also vital to speak to dictators in the language of strength. After all, this is the only language that leaders like Vladimir Putin truly understand. To Putin and his fellow dictators, any talk of win-win situations and mutually beneficial cooperation is interpreted as a sign of weakness

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

serious with their resolve to use nuclear weapons

they threat with tHe nUcLeAr EsCaLaTiOn literally every week:
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65603 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2023 at 14:33
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

My current prediction, just briefly (since I said I'll keep out of the thread until november, but wth): The US are already starting to pull out of the war, and this will accelerate quickly. They made their profits, on a military level there is nothing to be gained, and they don't want a real conflict with Russia. So they'll let Russia take more territory, thereby defeating Ukraine, and move on to the next target (China/Taiwan). Which would be another way to quickly end the war, I suppose. Quick reminder: None of what I said are things I wish for - I'm just stoicly stating what I think is likely to happen
I agree with everything, except I can't imagine America going to war with China. Can America be that stupid? Start a war with China on China's front porch? Wink That said, I didn't think The World would shut down for as long as it did.  

I doubt either nation would want a real war with the U.S.   
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2023 at 14:23
^ Can't imagine that either, but in the 40+ years that I've been around, I've seen a lot of things I previously thought unimaginable, and the rate of this happening has definitely been increasing as of late.
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6801 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2023 at 13:59
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I want peace.  I want Ukraine to sign a peace deal with Russia.  You've misperceived me.  How have my statements confused you,  Mirakaze?  Perhaps, you confuse my stoic evaluation of what happens in the Russian/Ukraine war with my desire for the war to stop.  I want the war to stop, yet I think if the war continues...Russia will take more territory and lives.  Do you have a problem with me simultaneously holding both views, Mirakaze?    

I think this is the fundamental problem: People like you and me believe that an immediate cease-fire and negotiations for a peace deal are the only way to end this war before it escalates. People like Prog-jester (correct me if I'm wrong) argue that this is just Russian propaganda designed to enable Putin to take the whole of Ukraine and then the world (hence calling him "Putler"). So as a consequence, anyone arguing for a peace deal is a threat to Ukraine.

My problem with their position is the lack of an end game - suppose we win the war in Ukraine, what then? Will we simply wait to see whether Russia are serious with their resolve to use nuklear weapons in that case? 
 
My current prediction, just briefly (since I said I'll keep out of the thread until november, but wth): The US are already starting to pull out of the war, and this will accelerate quickly. They made their profits, on a military level there is nothing to be gained, and they don't want a real conflict with Russia. So they'll let Russia take more territory, thereby defeating Ukraine, and move on to the next target (China/Taiwan). Which would be another way to quickly end the war, I suppose. Quick reminder: None of what I said are things I wish for - I'm just stoicly stating what I think is likely to happen.



I agree with everything, except I can't imagine America going to war with China. Can America be that stupid? Start a war with China on China's front porch? Wink That said, I didn't think The World would shut down for as long as it did.  
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2023 at 13:51
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I want peace.  I want Ukraine to sign a peace deal with Russia.  You've misperceived me.  How have my statements confused you,  Mirakaze?  Perhaps, you confuse my stoic evaluation of what happens in the Russian/Ukraine war with my desire for the war to stop.  I want the war to stop, yet I think if the war continues...Russia will take more territory and lives.  Do you have a problem with me simultaneously holding both views, Mirakaze?    

I think this is the fundamental problem: People like you and me believe that an immediate cease-fire and negotiations for a peace deal are the only way to end this war before it escalates. People like Prog-jester (correct me if I'm wrong) argue that this is just Russian propaganda designed to enable Putin to take the whole of Ukraine and then the world (hence calling him "Putler"). So as a consequence, anyone arguing for a peace deal is a threat to Ukraine.

My problem with their position is the lack of an end game - suppose we win the war in Ukraine, what then? Will we simply wait to see whether Russia are serious with their resolve to use nuclear weapons in that case? 
 
My current prediction, just briefly (since I said I'll keep out of the thread until november, but wth): The US are already starting to pull out of the war, and this will accelerate quickly. They made their profits, on a military level there is nothing to be gained, and they don't want a real conflict with Russia. So they'll let Russia take more territory, thereby defeating Ukraine, and move on to the next target (China/Taiwan). Which would be another way to quickly end the war, I suppose. In that case I think that Putin will not take all of Ukraine, but make sure that western Ukraine never joins NATO. Quick reminder: None of what I said are things I wish for - I'm just stoicly stating what I think is likely to happen.



Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 15 2023 at 14:18
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 16>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.545 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.