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TheProgtologist ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
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The question is....When ISN'T the Middle East going to war?
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
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yeah... that caught my attention immediately... then again it's not like they are not at war.. and haven't been for many many years... |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20414 |
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It has not been this bad in a few decades if you ask me.
You have Israeli forces taking hostages/prisoners ministers of another Gov't. That has been unseen in quite a while
They had besieged the buildings before, but not taken as prisoners.
Edited by Sean Trane - June 29 2006 at 08:50 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Update:
Israel has captured and detained dozens of Hamas government ministers and law makers. Israeli tanks are poised to move on northern Gaza. BBC Report Edited by Blacksword - June 29 2006 at 06:18 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Yes, it been happening since 1948. I think the fear is that the conflict could expand, if other countries, sympathetic to the Palestinian position, decide to get involved. This will depend on how heavy handed Israel are, and of course how far the PA decide to push Israel, by killing those they have taken hostage, or by continuing rocket attacks. You're right. This is, basically nothing new, and the conflict has had the potential to expand in the past. I think there is an almost irrational sense of 'apocalypse' in the air at present, due to fear of global terror, Iran and North Koreas nuclear programs. Many people believe that this conflict is quite central to the overal problem, and I share that view to a point. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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JrKASperov ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: July 07 2004 Status: Offline Points: 904 |
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Powder keg? I don't think so. What could happen? War between the two countries? Isn't that already happening?
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Epic.
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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That isn't true. The aid pursestrings are very powerful, and depending on congress, are loosened and tightened based on American approval/dissaproval. America is pretty responsible for Israel completely changing the WB fence route.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Washington may have forbid Israel to use force in the past, but what are the consequences for Israel if they ignore Washington? Not much.
Generally, the US IS in full support of Israel. They may grimace occassionally at Israels heavy handedness, but they are very much behind the Jewish state. I can understand the US supporting this vital democracy in the ME, but balance in their views can still be possible, while supporting the democratic principles Israel stands for. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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^ good point AALFW, I agree.
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AtLossForWords ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 11 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6699 |
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At the same time Washington in the past has prohibited Israel from using the force that they want to use. Washington has repeatedly sided with Israel, but at the same time limited Israel's military options. I wish Washington would stop playing Israel for fools and tell them one of two things. Either to wholeheartedly support Israel and allow them to use all force they believe necessary, or become a mediator and try to bring both sides togethor in agreement.
I much prefer the second option, but I think the U.S. really needs to take a stand on this situation.
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![]() ![]() "Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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It's interesting that the EU calls on BOTH sides to seek a diplomatic solution, but the US decines to comment on Israeli reaction, and blames Hamas for everything. Washinton merely states that Israel has the right to defend itself. I dont think many people would dispute that, but why is the US so reluctant to criticise Israeli action?
I think more could be achieved if the US took a more balanced view. It seems to me to be a 'no brainer' that nothing will be achieved in bringing about a ceasefire, by Israels current course of action. Perhaps Israel, or indeed both sides are delberately trying to escalate this conflict. Edited by Blacksword - June 28 2006 at 17:58 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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maani ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Founding Moderator Joined: January 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
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True, there is a great deal of potentially dangerous "muscle-flexing" going on right now. However, I don't think it will lead to any kind of widespread conflagration. Still, it would be best if everyone there took a chil pill and "toned down" the "perceived hostile acts."
Peace. (Now more than ever...)
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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here is the Int'l response:
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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Exactly, there is little anyone can do about Hamas. Palestinians will suffer under this extremist government, but their hatred will turn to Israel and supposed collaborators like Abu Mazen, when they should turn to Hamas, who has made them into pariahs.
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AtLossForWords ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 11 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6699 |
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Well first of all it's terrible to see things happening. After so many efforts to try to compromise between Israel and Palestine, things still seem to be the way they always have been, and maybe even getting worse. I don't believe there will be war anytime soon. The Internatioinal community is going to intervene and more negoiations will take place and eventually bring forth a ceasefire. However I do believe that there will be more violence than the International community was hoping for this year.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Sanctions on who? Israel has already shelled a power station and is threatening to cut off water supplies. There is very little we can do to punish the Hamas government. They dont really have anything except foreign aid, and much of that has` already been cut. There is not much the US, or anyone can do really. This conflict belongs to Israel and the Palestinians. If the PA refuses to recognise Israel, and Israel continues it's heavy handed approach there is no hope. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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bhikkhu ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: AČ Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
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I hate to see these things happen. When are people going to realize that you can't change opinion at the barrel of a gun. The U.S. probably won't do anything, except talk, or sanctions. There's no money in it for Cheney and friends.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I found this on the back shelf of the BBC news site. It seems Israel is accusing Syria of complicity in the kidnapping.
BBC Report Assuming this does not escalte into a broader conflict, dont see how this crisis can be resolved without significant bloodshed on both sides. I also dont see how the Israeli incursions are going to improve things in the longer term. Edited by Blacksword - June 28 2006 at 15:47 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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It's not just the kidnapping, but that was seen as a "last straw" since it occurred in Israel proper. It is more a response to the 1000+ qassam rockets launched from Gaza since Israel withdrew.
Yea Olmert is pretty beholden to Western opinion, especially of the USA. He came back from his USA/EU tour spouting very different rhetoric.
But yea, I think it is pretty bad. No good will come of this, except maybe a few weeks of quite on the Gaza border for Israel.
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