Libertarian Thread #2: We Shall Never Die!

Negoba wrote:     I'm remembering that institutionalized force is your big defining element of government vs private organization. And I probably need to do some reading on that specific point and how it effects the political arena.   But as JJ pointed out, that doesn't have to be the way government functions. In fact, there are countries where government simply functions for the public good.   And there are governments that pretty much function as "We got the guns. You do whatever the f we say."

I agree, but sometimes the public good isn't so good for the public.

Negoba wrote: I'm not saying government should be the ONLY way to organize society. I'm saying that the ONLY function of government is to organize society. Hopefully that distinction is communicated. Government should be the servant of society. I know that it is not in reality. But that's not because it's impossible.

I do get that and since you re stated my point I wont, but sorry it IS impossible. For us.

You are right, it's not impossible and in those lovely nordic countries I like to point out they do have governments (large ones too) that just do their job...and I'm sure there are other examples but ours is littered with corruption, greed, and a bad mindset. Any fan of history knows how deeply rooted it is too.

Believe me man I was in your boat for a long time. I believe in government but one that does its job, or the "right" government, etc etc and even though we don't have that maybe we will!
Until I finally accepted no, we will not. It won't fix itself, nor will a handful of good politicians. So what is there to do?
I am 100% open to ideas on how to "fix" the government but they need to be realistic and more importantly passable. Remember, the government makes the laws so it'd be tough to impose anything on them they don't want!

Also remember, it's not just federal...the local level which has so much direct impact on us is also tainted. Maybe not as badly but we know it's there. I know someone (in Western PA ironically!) that is pretty much in it for his benefit and to help his friends. It goes from the top to the bottom, how the hell can we change that?
Only thing that makes sense to me is scale it back.


Edited by JJLehto - February 15 2012 at 14:37

I'm not saying government should be the ONLY way to organize society. I'm saying that the ONLY function of government is to organize society. Hopefully that distinction is communicated.

You said you support legalization of hard narcotics. Does that mean you think everyone should do hard narcotics? I'm assuming the answer is no. Since government is not the mechanism regulating the narcotics, society would be the natural one to dissuade everyone from u;sing them wholesale. Your very position seems to suggest that they shouldn't be the same entity.

When someone robs a liquor store, government exists to put him in jail. Society exists to tell us not to demonize the robber who needed the money to support his son who was just diagnosed with ALS.

My B MoM, I didn't go on the internet for those 3 or 4 days, someone tells me you were pretty insulted when I made a crack about Western PA.

Sorry if you were but relax man, I'm from the place where other states dump their sh*t on us and then make fun  of us for being a sh*t hole, and is the constant joke for the nation (no thanks now to Jersey Shore). Not really worth getting worked up over. Just a joke. For what it's worth I enjoy Pittsburgh itself, fine place, they have Primanti's tonsa bars and I finally went to a casino so that was fun.

Even though you were incorrect about NYC I won't even defend it because it's not worth the time. Besides, lots of different people were all getting along fine at the NY Giants victory parade You just need a common denominator!

Yeah, Pat hit it on the head with Maher...he just talks a lot but doesn't say anything. What he does say just really doesn't make sense. Thinking about it, Cain reminded me of him...how they both try to occupy every position at one time except Maher is of course more leftist.
He's also dreadfully unfunny


Edited by JJLehto - February 15 2012 at 13:43

I think that central control works perfect for entities with one single goal in mind. Ask Apple

A society has 27373637382838282 goals in mind and 6737363738272728 different views and ways to get there....

Equality 7-2521 wrote: He's flipped his stance on legalizing non-marijuana drugs many times.

I think he just wants to be left alone if he decides to smoke in the middle of the street. He probably doesn't give a damn about other drugs.

The T wrote: ...how inconsistent his views are (let's legalize all drugs, but at the same time let's make the state the most powerful entity on the planet...)

That isn't inconsistent at all. It's only inconsistent with your beliefs. You may come to the same conclusion, but that does not mean your premise is identical.

^I watched it religiously until last year and I can certify Pat's words. He doesn't really seem to support the drug war but his is an empty cry for legal drugs, he doesn't attack the drug war as an attack to liberty but seems to be just desperate to be able to smoke everywhere without having to conceal it...

And Religulous... I enjoyed the first time I saw it. The second time (and by then I still liked him and agreed with many of his views) I couldn't stand it as much.

I've seen every episode of Real Time with Bill Maher. My friend is an avid fan. He's a fraud. He pretends to be a libertarian, but then he'll turn around and support the drug war. He's just an ego maniacal idiot who uses his zombie audience to yell at his guests when they begin to defeat him intellectually.