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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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^ That is an interesting read. Thanks for sharing it Nets.
There have always been problems with Palestinian leadership, and it's a tragedy for the peace process that Hamas were elected to power. There are gains to be made by both sides using propoganda and portraying themselves as the sole victims in the conflict. The situation is complicated, and I fear one without end or solution. A two state solution seems like a positive idea, but it wouldn't alter the fact that much of the Arab world wants an end to Israel. It also wouldn't alter the fact that there are rabid right wing Jewish elements who see expansion beyond current borders - however ill defined - as essential to establish Israel as the world leaders after the 'apocalypse war' Thankfully adherence to religous prophecy is not 'apparently' the goal of the Israeli government. That said, western style democracies are able to dress up their more cotraversial agendas in a far more palatable and marketable form than their Arab/Muslim counterparts. Peace may be the ultimate goal of innocent people on both sides, but these folk dont call the shots. Even in a democracy, power corrupts and extreme elements will persist on both sides. I fear for the future of that region. I agree, to an extent, that the term 'Humanitarian crisis' is used alot by the UN in relation to the Palestinian position. Their predicament is clearly not on the scale of say, that witnessed in Darfur or Rwanda, but the potential is there for the crisis to reach a point, where damage to civillian infrastructure could lead to a complete collapse of the PA. That would not solve anything. It would merely inspire more terrorism. I believe Israel needs to do everything in its power to maintain and promote the moral high ground. Terrorism is, after all, abhorant in all its forms. Their current action undermines their credibility IMO. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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Good point, the Syria-Iran axis is responsible for much of the terror, they are the ones who control Hizbullah, and partially Hamas. Whether or not the extremists are a minority, a democratically elected Hamas party is a tacit approval from the Palestinian people of their tactics.
Food and medical supplies don't get through because every time Israel opens the Rafah crossing, they have to close it because of a terror threat. The crossings are frequent targets, and while I sympathize with the majority of the Pales population suffering, its understandable to see why the borders are always closed. I think the term humanitarian crisis is overused in this conflict, while I don't doubt there are temporary ones, the UN basically considers it a continuous one, which doesn't make sense in light of the fact that Palestinians have a life expectancy comprable to that in the USA.
I thought this was an interesting editorial; a critique of Palestinian leadership, not the people:
Edited by NetsNJFan - June 30 2006 at 10:43 |
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I dont think money is the issue. It's more a case of food and medical supplies not getting through. Attacking civillian infrastructure is not going to achieve anything but a potential worsening of the problem. Besides Nets, it's not the entire population of Gaza building rockets and dealing out death. Whether you like to admit it or not the extremists are a minority. As for the rockets, I wouldn't be surprised if their conponant parts were donated from an outside source. Syria perhaps. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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The UN is ALWAYS warning about the latest humanitarian crisis in Gaza. No money for food, but money for Qassam rockets and automatic rifles? Please.
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Chicapah ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8238 |
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According to Wikipedia "Someone who attacks and/or kills a defenseless person is also considered a coward." Blowing up people who are in public mourning over a loved one would apply. I stand by my original assessment.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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imoeng ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: February 03 2006 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 2450 |
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The best thing is, to give all of the Dream Theater, well, prog CDS, to each of them... Then all of them have to write reviews, peace upon earth..
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I would agree. Cowardice is nothing to do with these acts. It's a case of religous psychosis, blatant insanity or at best psychopathy, that drives these actions. These people are nothing in this life, but their mental illness leads them to believe they may be something in the next. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Forgotten Son ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: March 13 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1356 |
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As awful as such acts are, the word "cowardice" hardly applies. |
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Not top of the pile on TV news by any means, but this story takes the lead on the BBC website. Israeli air strikes have struck the PA Interior ministry, incurring the first fatality since the incursion began. The UN is also warning of an imminent humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
BBC Report Edited by Blacksword - June 30 2006 at 03:27 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
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hahah.... that's what I've loved about the Israeli's... they don't pussyfoot around do they..
you just knew the situation was going to get bad when terrorists are elected to political office. I'll need to read up on what's going on though... he who has the guns makes the rules of course, but under what laws would they be charged, and are they subject to them. Edited by micky - June 29 2006 at 15:37 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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UPDATE: from Yediot Achronot
Hamas officials to stand trial Vice Premier Shimon Peres said in an interview to CNN that Israel intended to submit indictments against the Hamas members under arrest.
Israel plans to submit criminal charges against senior Hamas leaders arrested Wednesday night, Attorney General Menachem Mazuz rules; according to Central Command chief, detainees won't be used as bargaining chip Aviram Zino Attorney General Menachem Mazuz ordered security forces to carry out criminal, rather than civilian arrests of Hamas senior officials, so that they can be tried according to the Terror-Prevention Act, sources in the Justice Ministry told Ynet Thursday. The detainees launched a hunger strike. Peres was asked in the interview why the Hamas top figures were arrested. He answered by saying that their arrest is not arbitrary, and added that they will stand trial and they will be able to defend themselves. Meanwhile, Central Command Chief Yair Naveh said that Hamas members would not be used as bargaining chips, adding that they would be charged.
![]() Some of Hamas members under arrest (Photo: AFP)
"The arrested senior figures are tied to financing and aiding terror attacks. Just this year Hamas killed six civilians in Judea and Samaria, kidnapped Nuriel Sasson a few months ago, and carried out shooting attacks in roads in the last few days," Naveh said.
Examining arrests
Shortly after the establishment of the Hamas government, sources at the Attorney General's Office began consultations on how to act against Hamas on the legal level.
In recent days a request was received by the political rank in Jerusalem and the Shin Bet to look into the possibility of arresting senior members of the Palestinian Legislative Council.
In general there are a number of accepted paths in such a case – the first is an administrative detention, usually carried out when there is a shortage of witnesses, or when there is a desire not to expose intelligence information. The second path is the criminal arrests, requiring a higher level of eye witnesses, beyond reasonable doubt.
It was this path that was chosen in accordance with the Terror Prevention Act. The Justice Ministry spokesman explained that all of the arrestees were Hamas officials, which is a terrorist organization, and their membership in a terror organization is a severe violation.
Sources in the ministry say the arrests could have taken place two months ago, but the decision to arrest them had to be taken by the political rank, and was therefore only carried out tonight, apparently following recent security developments. --------------------------------------------------------Edited by NetsNJFan - June 29 2006 at 15:04 |
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Chicapah ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8238 |
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I don't know, man. How can any religion, no matter how radical, imagine a reward in heaven for such atrocities? News items like this crush any hopes I have for peace in the middle east.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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That is what they do. Weddings are also frequent targets, in Israel and Iraq, and now even Jordan.
Nothing is worse though, than when they attack nursery schools though. How can human beings do that? All of the schools in Sderot, an Israeli town near Gaza, had to close a month early because of the Qassam rocket attacks from the strip. Edited by NetsNJFan - June 29 2006 at 14:32 |
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Chicapah ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8238 |
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This may be only partially relevant but I just read that a suicide bomber in Iraq drove a car loaded with a bomb into a funeral gathering, killing 17. Wouldn't all people consider that the apex of cowardice? Is there no shred of decency left? A funeral is a terrorists target now?
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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Of course Blacksword. The Israeli press does ten to lean left, especially Haaretz and Yediot Achronot, but the Jerusalem Post is right, so it balances out. And both sides criticize the government incessantly, usually with different takes on the same issue. "Your being to tough...you're not being tough enough!" etc.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I guess the Israeli press have their own agenda, like any media. But, it is the job of the free press to question the actions of those democratically elected to lead. Even if they dont always reflect public opinion. |
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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That isn't exactly true. Even the dovish, left-wing, get out of the territories Meretz party is supporting the incursion. This is the most united Israel has been in a while, politically.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Opinion on the Israeli incursions is very divided in Isarel too. The Israeli press are not convinced the actions will help secure the release of their young soldier.
BBc Report Edited by Blacksword - June 29 2006 at 13:04 |
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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Sean: I think it is important to distinguish the situation of the hostages. The Hamas ministers are in air conditioned Israeli prisons, with access to the outside world and are living under humanitarian conditions. The Israeli corporal is in some rat infested Khan Yunis hellhole with a blindfold and rifle in his face, if he isn't dead yet.
Progtologist; Micky; Sean: Good point, I should have said is the ME moving towards a flare up in the state of war that has existed since 1947. Your right, technically Israel is "officially" at war with every member of the Arab league, except Jordan and Egypt.
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
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the better question is... has there been a time that it HASN'T been... even before 1948. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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