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Dean 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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 Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:56 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
^I don't think there's anything in that statement to upset atheists. |
There shouldn't be, and probably isn't, except the idea that marriage is for procreation because the bible says it is (Gen 1: go forth and multiply) is a misconception that some atheists believe to be true.
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What?
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:34 |
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^I don't think there's anything in that statement to upset atheists.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:33 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Also in our law (And in all Roman law), the essence of the marriage is at least the possibility of procreation (Not religious, legal)
Thisnis our civil and legal tradition, and I believe in it.
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This (sorry fellow atheists) is true - the bible does not link marriage to procreation, though it's not too happy about spilling seed and adultary. While the church makes pronouncements on procreation, contraception, consumation and all those other things that celebate priests know all about, the bible does not. For the Romans and the Hebrews the contract of marriage was more to do with inheritance - granting legal ownership rights to the surviving offspring (i.e. those that haven't been stoned to death).
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What?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:07 |
Textbook wrote:
Ivan: OK, so what's the basis for not altering the definition of marriage?
IS IT BY ANY CHANCE RELIGIOUS
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Our definition of marriage (Matrimonio) is based in Roman Law (Before Christ just in case) and it's defines as
"matris munium"
Matris = Mother Munium: Care
In other words care of the mother
Also in our law (And in all Roman law), the essence of the marriage is at least the possibility of procreation (Not religious, legal)
This is our civil and legal tradition, and I believe in it.
Again, if it was only because a religious issue, I wouldn't care, because the catholic Church doesn't accept the effects of Civil Marriage, so wouldn't affect the religious autonomy.
But, if our law changes the terms, I will have to accept them, but I'm sure it won't happen in an immediate future.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 16 2012 at 22:39
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 1072
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:04 |
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According to my two minute research
XX- Normal Female
XY - Normal Male
XXX- Tall female with slightly impaired intelligence, not sterile
XXY-XXXY-XXXXY etc. - male who may be sterile and has lower intelligence for every extra X
X- sterile female, short, with some cognitive impairment and strange physical symptoms such as webbed body parts
Y- death
So you are either a male, female, or sterile offshoot of one or the other. No inbetween gender.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:00 |
RoyFairbank wrote:
Is there such thing as a pure - nonsexual - neither gender - person?
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You realize nonsexual and neither gender would be completely different right? There's plenty of neither gender people. My biology isn't strong enough for me to definitive answer the former.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:00 |
Alitare wrote:
The only thing I hate more than arrogant religion is arrogant atheism.
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nah agreed 1000% but whenever I say so, "he's trolling" so I stopped bothering.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:59 |
VanderGraafKommandöh wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
VanderGraafKommandöh wrote:
As an interesting aside, how are those individuals treated her were born hermaphrodites or pseudohermaphrodites. If they chose to marry, what then?
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God forgot about them.
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I hope that wasn't a serious answer.
They have a right to marry (and there have been cases) but would this be illegal in most countries?
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Yeah it wasn't serious. I'm not sure of the Catholic answer. I was once given the response that whatever birth chosen by the parents for the child at birth is the child's sex. They would have to be heterosexual according to that choice. However, the man was not what I would call an expert on the faith.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:58 |
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Pat is not being serious.
It's another reason I like keeping marriage out of law entirely.
As you point out James, it can become a sticky wicket when you really start thinking about it.
Keep it out of law. This would create true equality, leave marriage as a personal issue, and not infringe upon the beliefs of others. Who, like it or not, disagree as strongly as we do.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:58 |
Negoba wrote:
You crazy.
Sashimi grade tuna maybe, but not oysters.
That sounds like I'm trying to do some kind of nasty innuendo. But I just like sushi. |
Well I can agree that sashimi grade tuna is better than oysters, but I'll take raw salmon over all 3.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 1072
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:56 |
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Is there such thing as a pure - nonsexual - neither gender - person?
XXX< ???
XXY<???
XX<Female
XY<Male
X <What is this? female or something different, I think they can survive
Y<Stillborn, not enough genetic information to create a human being [the Y chromosome is much smaller, it is just an addendum to the X chromosome.]
Edited by RoyFairbank - April 16 2012 at 16:56
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:55 |
After reading all this for the past few pages I find within me the urge to convey my deepest spiritual feelings:
The only thing I hate more than arrogant religion is arrogant atheism.
Regardless of whether or not you personally condone anal piracy, we can all stably live by this much-warranted creed.
Another healthy round of folks disagreeing and saying 'My god says blah blah, you're wrong'. 'No Way, Holy-Roller Jose, your god is a lie and you're foolish for having beliefs and feelings and stuff.' 'Nuh-uh, Billy Blasphemer, I have a stupid book that says the world was made in seven days! Neener!' 'Well, Mr. Priest-man, I got a big fat book that says the world was made in lots more days, plus...plus up your nose with a rubber hose.' 'Well my book was written by god!' 'Well my book was written by rich white a****les with promiscuous daughters.' Hey, I bet they're kinda cute!' "Let's all go bowling on wednesday, okay? I'll bring the snacks if you'll bring drinks.' 'Sounds like a plan. Hey, did you see that new Hunger Games movie that just came out?' 'Yeah, those effects were bitchin'!' 'I know, I know, but I heard it was just rippin' off Harry Potter or some crap, dude'.
Where am I?
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:53 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Negoba wrote:
Why is it that we ignore all the Biblical teachings on food that may have had health implications at the time but don't apply the same standard to sex?
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Because a good oyster is better than sex.
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You crazy.
Sashimi grade tuna maybe, but not oysters.
That sounds like I'm trying to do some kind of nasty innuendo. But I just like sushi.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:49 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
VanderGraafKommandöh wrote:
As an interesting aside, how are those individuals treated her were born hermaphrodites or pseudohermaphrodites. If they chose to marry, what then?
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God forgot about them.
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I hope that wasn't a serious answer. They have a right to marry (and there have been cases) but would this be illegal in most countries?
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:45 |
Negoba wrote:
Why is it that we ignore all the Biblical teachings on food that may have had health implications at the time but don't apply the same standard to sex?
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Because a good oyster is better than sex.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:44 |
VanderGraafKommandöh wrote:
As an interesting aside, how are those individuals treated her were born hermaphrodites or pseudohermaphrodites. If they chose to marry, what then?
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God forgot about them.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:44 |
Why is it that we ignore all the Biblical teachings on food that may have had health implications at the time but don't apply the same standard to sex?
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:43 |
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As an interesting aside, how are those individuals treated her were born hermaphrodites or pseudohermaphrodites. If they chose to marry, what then?
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:40 |
Ivan: OK, so what's the basis for not altering the definition of marriage?
IS IT BY ANY CHANCE RELIGIOUS
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:38 |
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Well you point out the contradiction, so I won't have to.
I guess all I can say is I disagree, and the rationale they use is...questionable.
Glad you said that final part, I laughed when I read kicking babies in the face and I feel less bad now.
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