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irrelevant 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
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Points: 13382
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 Posted: December 06 2010 at 22:55 |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
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Points: 28057
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 22:37 |
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Couple reasons. I'm going to reat it as why people don't like metal in general very much:
1) Most bands take themselves way too seriously when their lyrics are just plain cheesy and laughable. They should be laughing about it. But sometimes they and the fans take slaying dragons really seriously.
2) The lyrics are often really pretentious or really cheesy. I like Pain of Salvation because most of the time Gildenlocks keeps the lyrics personal, interpersonal, and relatable. other times you get "The Dark Eternal Night" or some philosophical crap. No thanks. Artists aren't usually the go-to guys for philosophy.
3) Solos. "Hey cool riff...Nice solo, man! Oh hey here's another on--oh wait why are you starting another one that one wasn't even ove---OH DAMMIT NOT AGAIN."
4) A lot of bands couldn't come up with a compelling melody to save their life. And I mean compelling in a personal way to me. Ark's a fine example. Utterly generic in every way. Hell I'd take DT's "Another Day" over anything like that. Least I can remember Another Day after the fact.
5) Growling can be ok. Usually not. Hoarse whispers (Agalloch)...even less so. Everything else that's not clean is always terrible (personal opinion).
6) Black metal has got to be one of the most pathetic and laughable musical cultures ever. it's only good for making fun of.
My, opinion, etc.
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8631
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 22:11 |
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^LOL
All we need now is someone to say "haytaz gona h8!"
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 21:23 |
Because it's overrated.  
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18169
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 20:29 |
 J-Man wrote:
Couldn't have said it better! 
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Pretty good.
My biggest issue was that in the old days, the likes of Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, Spooky Tooth, Black Sabbath and many of those hard bands, had one thing in common ... they were loud ... and I mean LOUD ... and in some cases, they were not very good in concert ... but it was all so lost in the loudness that ... along with people so ripped ... that it didn't matter.
Half of that music today would be considered pretentious and garbage and no one would notice it. But then, at that time, no one else was doing it, which made it look and appear impressive ... but wasn't.
What has survived from all those is one thing ... loudness ... and nothing else ... and all of these "metal" bands are simply not capable of doing something different and not loud ... and that kinda shows how much the band can do in their work ... and in the end they are not always capable of doing good work.
There is one issue here ... if Petrucci (Dream Theater) was playing a violin everyone would say that he's amazing and top of the stratosphere! ... But he's playing an electric guitar ... and because it's hard and loud ... it's "metal". And after a while, one wonders where the sensitivity and the feeling is and the finger dexterity stops in order to play music, not just notes! The very good example is how he blended really well with an orchestra ... but when all he does is go super loud and the rest of the band doesn't exist and he is just thrashing his strings ... I question the musicianship behind it all. And the desire to get something across other than loudness and noise!
In general, there is nothing wrong with "metal" ... but hearing the same thing yet again does get boring once in a while ... specially when the majority of singers aren't even that good!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 19:44 |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 18:42 |
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I think what appeals to me about Alithia is that the subject matter is interesting. It's vocalist has a deep style and is neither particularly screechy or growly. Also the music is reasonably complex.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 17:18 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Prog metal is awesome but I do not like screechy growly death METAL VOCALS. |
death metal vocals aren't screechy
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This. Death metal has growls, black metal has screeches. Or the other way around. Nobody cares about that. 
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Earendil
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Joined: November 17 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
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Points: 1584
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 15:48 |
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I listen to quite a bit of metal, but some prog metal (and metal in general) can definitely sacrifice well-written music for technicality or anger. Also, there is a much smaller sonic range for the music if it is completely metal. It's a pretty confining genre actually, which can make it become repetitive.
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Languagegeek
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 18 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 38
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 15:08 |
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I used to listen to a few bands like Tool, and enjoyed Metallica back in the pre-Justice for all days. I haven't given any of this a listen in 15 or more years. Why? I think it's because I'm a genuinely happy guy who blissfully ignores the idiocies of the world instead of getting righteously p.o.'ed about them like I used to. These days, I'm completely into Krautrock, Canterbury, Psychedelic, Zeuhl: more philosophical and imaginative than aggressive and raw. The musicianship in prog metal might be superb, but to my ears it's a very monotonous ride both emotionally and musically.
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silverpot
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Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 841
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 14:16 |
Normally, I don't much appreciate any kind of metal. I find it boring and soulless and because it's got a prog prefix doesn't make it any more interesting. However; I like some Pain of Salvation now and then and was surprised to find that PA has classified them as prog metal. Conclusion; never say never. 
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Xanatos
Forum Senior Member
Banned
Joined: February 01 2010
Location: Latin America
Status: Offline
Points: 305
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 13:36 |
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Prog metal is awesome but I do not like screechy growly death METAL VOCALS. |
This
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1601
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 13:23 |
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I like some prog metal, but that which I don't I dislike for the same reason as regular metal...screaming/growling. I've never been able to take any music seriously that has a grown man growling like a beast or screaming like a girl.
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13809
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 13:22 |
Owing to recommendations given to me on a thread I started a few weeks ago, I am exploring a bit of prog metal now. The jury is still out on what I think for the purposes of this thread.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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bartosso
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 01 2010
Location: PL
Status: Offline
Points: 68
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 13:12 |
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Prog metal is generally lousy but there are a few bands which are absolutely brilliant - Opeth, Meshuggah, Tool, Riverside are fantastic and I love them really. Decapitated, with their last album, was great too, but their drummer died in an accident so I don't know if they're going to continue. Fantastic drummer by the way.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 12:14 |
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Prog metal is awesome but I do not like screechy growly death METAL VOCALS. |
death metal vocals aren't screechy
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The Monodrone
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2010
Location: Indiana, USA
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Points: 4489
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 11:10 |
There is definitely some prog metal I do enjoy, though I find a lot of it to be bland and predictable.
That being said, I also find many bands in any other prog sub-genre to be bland and predictable... It's just a matter of what hits you musically and what doesn't.
Edited by ptkc123 - December 06 2010 at 13:04
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 10:58 |
Manuel wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
I guess that's true if you're talking about mainstream stuff only, but the 2000s was a spectacular decade for metal if you knew where to look. |
I hope you are right. I listen to prog metal from time to time, but have not found anything substantially good, maybe because, as you said, did not know where to look, and I truly hope that prog metal finds a way to a more versatile and innovative sound, so more people get into it. |
Indeed, I hope so too. I am generally on the lookout for something really interesting from the prog metal scene and I can't say I have found much. Riverside, Shadow Gallery, Circus Maximus, Adagio (don't know if they are on this site), Silent Force (ditto, very power metal-based, both bands), all decent bands but nothing all that great. When I did stumble upon a really interesting prog metal band ACT, they turned out to be eclectic prog according to this website. I also remember reading CCVP's review of their album The Last Epic, saying that they were like Andromeda but not a patch and based on Extension of the Wish, I neither found much common ground nor found ACT inferior, quite the opposite. So my way of looking at music must be very different from most prog metal fans.
Edited by rogerthat - December 06 2010 at 11:00
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13481
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 09:11 |
TODDLER wrote:
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You are indeed on target, I could not say it better.
One thing I could add is the fact that the 80s influence is quite predominant, forgetting about the legacy of the 70s hard rock or metal bands, like Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, etc. Their sound was original and distinct, not like the metal of today. I find it very hard to see a difference of style on today's bands, and most guitarist have the same sound (The Eddie Van Halen sound to be more specific). You could very easily tell Ritchie Blackmore from Tommy Iomi, or Jimmy Page for example, which is not really the case today. [/QUOTE] Completely agree. [/QUOTE]
It's interesting because I remember hearing Alan Holdsworth with Gong and noticed the same distortion levels and sustain of Van Halen. Of course Van Halen was deeply influenced by Holdsworth. The riffs, the technique, and the sound. To get that sound one would have to surely apply a full-lock sustaining sound. If you listen to Holdsworth's soloing on Soft Machine Bundles, you may pick it up.....again, you may not. When Holdsworth plays power chords with Gong, use an EQ or try to imagine the chords without the other instruments and it sounds like metal. Actually heavier than Steve Hillage. (Live Herald). and a bit more like Van Halen.
Van Halen was also infuenced by Jeff Beck. I'm going the distance for him and I hate his music. He can actually play decent but is thought of in the vain of a cartoon character. The reference you make which is based on the difference in players from the 70's is telling. Not just their sound was different but, their approach in what is defined as practices. They were diverse players but their methods of development were quite different from 80's guitarists. I felt putrid over the "Buzz Saw" sound. Tom Schlotz, Lonesome Dave Peverett, Randy Bachman, Mark Farner, and Leslie West. It's too easy to get away with cheating in the usage of this sound. Luther Grosvenor from Spooky Tooth had the Toni Iommi sound on "The Last Puff". His distortion level was comparable to the nightmares listed above however he had that British Blues Boom sound and it was very complimenting to the music. When you hear Blackmore solo in "Lazy" from Machine Head, Rory Gallagher on "Live In Europe" and Clapton on "Crossroads" you wonder why the sound had to change? Andy Powell or even Scott Gorham and Brian Robertson from Thin Lizzy had a more diverse approach to the usage of distortion. [/QUOTE]
Once I read an article on this subject, I think it was on progsheet.com. I just looked for it but could not find it, but stressed the evident difference between guitarists before and after Van Halen. As you mentioned, not just their sound, but their approach was quite different.
I think also the state of the music industry was different and quite influential, since the 60s and 70s were more of a "Be yourself" an allowed bands to be more unique and expressive, whereas in the 80s and 90s music in general was more mainstream, meaning you had to fit into the sound/trend dictated by the industry (You can find references to this in the film "Before the Music Dies"), and it has limited many artists in their output of creative music, not only in rock, but in every genre of music.
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SaltyJon
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Joined: February 08 2008
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 09:03 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
it has nothing to do with whether or not it's prog metal, some people just don't like music that they don't like
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Opinions on why some don't like prog metal?
