The Jazz-Rock/Fusion Appreciation Thread |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12813 |
Posted: August 10 2007 at 08:52 | ||
However, several of those now so-called mainstream artists you list fused jazz with other music:
Benny Goodman: jazz and East European Jewish music
Django Reinhart and Stefane Grapelli; jazz and gipsy music and some European classical;.
Jacques Loussier: Bach and jazz.
Jazz is a very broad based music, some of it b*****dised and hybridised, some of it original (i.e. difficult to identify precursors) e.g. be bop. You only have to go back to the early 30's to find there was sub categorisation: e.g. New Orleans (Dixieland), Kansas, Chicago whilst Paul Whiteman had produced this big band hybrid that had already played Rhapsody in Blue - the first fusion of jazz and classical music before the music was rearranged in the now more familiar classical orchestral form. Maurice Ravel wasn't far behind and had already taken lessons with Bix Beiderbeck, as payment for lessons Beiderbeck had taken from the visiting French composer in piano composition and arrangement - Beiderbeck's rare piano recording (of about 1929??) In A Mist is one example of jazz with classical influences.
If your really want to hear some of the roots of jazz fusion, listen to the recording of the first major American jazz concert at Carnegie Hall made in January 1938 by Benny Goodman:
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andu
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: August 10 2007 at 07:54 | ||
Jazz -rock is a cross-genres kind of music, not a sub-genre of jazz; but that's only my opinion, of course. For me jazz-rock is not jazz but jazz-rock, nothing more, nothing less, and I would never use the same shelf to store Duke Ellington, Count Bassie, Benny Goodman, Grappelli, Django, Keith Jarret, or Jacques Loussier and Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Brand X or Return To Forever. (Of course I know there are cases of extreme proximity and intimacy between jazz and jazz-rock, but just as there are cases of clear opposition.)
I hope Mr. Zawinul will be fine and his health improved asap, please keep us informed! |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: August 10 2007 at 07:48 | ||
Listened with great nostalgia (and also reviewed) John McLaughlin's modern great live concert The Heart Of Things. A favorite of mine!!
A couple more McLaughlin albums left to listen (that is, to listen again, I heard Thieves And Poets and Industrial Zen before, it was the early 70s albums I needed to complete in my discography), then will head into Mahavishnu and Weather Report. Oh, Paco De Lucia's coming in September at PlaiFestival, Timisoara. (the festival where, last year, Di Meola was special guests - I've written my story about it...) |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12813 |
Posted: August 10 2007 at 07:33 | ||
"not jazz"??????????????? God i've been deluding myself for nearly 35 years.
A reminder, respected jazz critic, author, reviewer, Brian Glasser in his Joe Zawinul biography states 'jazz rock was the last great development in jazz'...
Also amazed, having been away for 3 days, that nobody has reported Zawinul is seriously ill in hospital, e.g. http://www.dailysentinel.com/featr/content/shared-gen/ap/Recordings/People_Joe_Zawinul.html |
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17157 |
Posted: August 10 2007 at 02:39 | ||
Rock, jazz, whateveryoucallit, Weather Report was one of the '70s best fusion bands. More people seem to prefer WR/Zawinul's pre-synth era, but I'm all for when Joe brought in the synths! |
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Dirk
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1043 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 19:34 | ||
Ok so i'll have to approach it with an open mind. At least it is the same genre and if i read correctly the same roots (Miles Davis). Then again i'm not such a huge fan of Mahavishnu as yet (more listenings required there i guess). Better start listening .....
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andu
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 19:25 | ||
Great acquisition, Dirk!
But if you'll like it, that won't be because you also like RTF & Di Meola... |
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Dirk
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1043 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 19:16 | ||
^^Glad to hear that Andu, i just picked this album up but haven't listened to it yet. I liked di Meola and Return to forever sofar so i've some hopes i like them too.
Edited by Dirk - August 09 2007 at 19:19 |
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andu
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 16:23 | ||
I don't want to convince you of anything , but maybe you haven't listened to Black Market. They do rock, there (among other things of course). And that is definitely not jazz. They may be a lot more jazzier on other albums, but I think Black Market is the most relevant regarding their presence on the PA. |
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer Joined: March 08 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2459 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 16:18 | ||
Oh, so THAT's what they do, eh? Now that sounds REALLY convincing! As for Eberhard Weber, of course he's a jazz musician, but on albums like SILENT FEET and YELLOW FIELDS he "approaches" (as it were) symphonic prog from a jazz angle, just as Pat Metheny did on (among others) THE WAY UP. Weber may not be a ROCKER, but neither is blooming Klaus Schulze... |
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Tetragon
Forum Groupie Joined: August 02 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 75 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 05:35 | ||
COLEY 'GOODBYE BRAINS'
If your into Nucleus you'll love these.Forget about a CD issue though.
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 30 2006 Location: LA, CA Status: Offline Points: 7113 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:49 | ||
How could I forget them? Almost as good as NiBBLoTaSS.
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65259 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:47 | ||
yes, and the great BRTFoMUotQ
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 30 2006 Location: LA, CA Status: Offline Points: 7113 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:45 | ||
Yeah, besides, we both know that YYNJJiQ is exclusively a guitar band, but hardly rocks at all.
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65259 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:44 | ||
sorry... too many abbreviations
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andu
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:38 | ||
I had to google that |
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 30 2006 Location: LA, CA Status: Offline Points: 7113 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:34 | ||
And the ELP.
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65259 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:31 | ||
and the RFSQ |
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andu
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:25 | ||
^ One can rock even without electric guitars; that's what Weather Report does.
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer Joined: March 08 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2459 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:21 | ||
Of course it's jazz, but so are Weather Report, Pat Metheny and John Abercrombie. Eberhard Weber's prog affinities are at least as striking as theirs. |
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