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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 08:52
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

Jazz -rock is a cross-genres kind of music, not a sub-genre of jazz; but that's only my opinion, of course. For me jazz-rock is not jazz but jazz-rock, nothing more, nothing less, and I would never use the same shelf to store Duke Ellington, Count Bassie, Benny Goodman, Grappelli, Django, Keith Jarret, or Jacques Loussier and Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Brand X or Return To Forever. (Of course I know there are cases of extreme proximity and intimacy between jazz and jazz-rock, but just as there are cases of clear opposition.)

I hope Mr. Zawinul will be fine and his health improved asap, please keep us informed!
 
However, several of those now so-called mainstream artists you list fused jazz with other music:
 
Benny Goodman: jazz and East European Jewish music
Django Reinhart and Stefane Grapelli; jazz and gipsy music and some European classical;.
Jacques Loussier: Bach and jazz.
 
Jazz is a very broad based music, some of it b*****dised and hybridised, some of it original (i.e. difficult to identify precursors) e.g. be bop. You only have to go back to the  early 30's to find there was sub categorisation: e.g. New Orleans (Dixieland), Kansas, Chicago whilst Paul Whiteman had produced this big band hybrid that had already played Rhapsody in Blue  - the first fusion of jazz and classical music before the music was rearranged in the now more familiar classical orchestral form. Maurice Ravel wasn't far behind and had already taken lessons with Bix Beiderbeck, as payment for lessons Beiderbeck had taken from the visiting French composer in piano composition and arrangement - Beiderbeck's rare piano recording (of about 1929??)  In A Mist  is one example of jazz with classical influences.
 
If your really want to hear some of the roots of jazz fusion, listen to the recording of the first major American jazz concert at Carnegie Hall made in January 1938 by Benny Goodman:
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 07:54
Jazz -rock is a cross-genres kind of music, not a sub-genre of jazz; but that's only my opinion, of course. For me jazz-rock is not jazz but jazz-rock, nothing more, nothing less, and I would never use the same shelf to store Duke Ellington, Count Bassie, Benny Goodman, Grappelli, Django, Keith Jarret, or Jacques Loussier and Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Brand X or Return To Forever. (Of course I know there are cases of extreme proximity and intimacy between jazz and jazz-rock, but just as there are cases of clear opposition.)

I hope Mr. Zawinul will be fine and his health improved asap, please keep us informed!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 07:48
Listened with great nostalgia (and also reviewed) John McLaughlin's modern great live concert The Heart Of Things. A favorite of mine!!

A couple more McLaughlin albums left to listen (that is, to listen again, I heard Thieves And Poets and Industrial Zen before, it was the early 70s albums I needed to complete in my discography), then will head into Mahavishnu and Weather Report.

Oh, Paco De Lucia's coming in September at PlaiFestival, Timisoara. (the festival where, last year, Di Meola was special guests - I've written my story about it...)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 07:33
"not jazz"??????????????? God i've been deluding myself for nearly 35 years.
 
A reminder, respected jazz critic, author, reviewer, Brian Glasser in his Joe Zawinul biography states 'jazz rock was the last great development in jazz'...
 
Also amazed, having been away for 3 days, that nobody has reported Zawinul is seriously ill in hospital, e.g. http://www.dailysentinel.com/featr/content/shared-gen/ap/Recordings/People_Joe_Zawinul.html
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2007 at 02:39
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

One can rock even without electric guitars; that's what Weather Report does. 


Oh, so THAT's what they do, eh? Now that sounds REALLY convincing!


I don't want to convince you of anything Question , but maybe you haven't listened to Black Market. They do rock, there (among other things of course). And that is definitely not jazz. They may be a lot more jazzier on other albums, but I think Black Market is the most relevant regarding their presence on the PA.


Rock, jazz, whateveryoucallit, Weather Report was one of the '70s best fusion bands. More people seem to prefer WR/Zawinul's pre-synth era, but I'm all for when Joe brought in the synths!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 19:34
Ok so i'll have to approach it with an open mind. At least it is the same genre and if i read correctly the same roots (Miles Davis). Then again i'm not such a huge fan of Mahavishnu as yet (more listenings required there i guess). Better start listening ....Smile.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 19:25
Great acquisition, Dirk! Clap

But if you'll like it, that won't be because you also like RTF & Di Meola... Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 19:16
^^Glad to hear that Andu, i just picked this album up but haven't listened to it yet. I liked di Meola and Return to forever sofar so i've some hopes i like them too.

Edited by Dirk - August 09 2007 at 19:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 16:23
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

One can rock even without electric guitars; that's what Weather Report does. 


Oh, so THAT's what they do, eh? Now that sounds REALLY convincing!


I don't want to convince you of anything Question , but maybe you haven't listened to Black Market. They do rock, there (among other things of course). And that is definitely not jazz. They may be a lot more jazzier on other albums, but I think Black Market is the most relevant regarding their presence on the PA.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 16:18
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

One can rock even without electric guitars; that's what Weather Report does. 


Oh, so THAT's what they do, eh? Now that sounds REALLY convincing! As for Eberhard Weber, of course he's a jazz musician, but on albums like SILENT FEET and YELLOW FIELDS he "approaches" (as it were) symphonic prog from a jazz angle, just as Pat Metheny did on (among others) THE WAY UP. Weber may not be a ROCKER, but neither is blooming Klaus Schulze...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 05:35
COLEY 'GOODBYE BRAINS' 
If your into Nucleus you'll love these.Forget about a CD issue though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:49
How could I forget them? Almost as good as NiBBLoTaSS.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:47
yes, and the great BRTFoMUotQ

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:45
Yeah, besides, we both know that YYNJJiQ is exclusively a guitar band, but hardly rocks at all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:44
sorry... too many abbreviations

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:38
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

^ One can rock even without electric guitars; that's what Weather Report does. 


and the RFSQ




I had to google that Tongue




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:34
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

^ One can rock even without electric guitars; that's what Weather Report does. 


and the RFSQ


 
And the ELP.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:31
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

^ One can rock even without electric guitars; that's what Weather Report does. 


and the RFSQ


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:25
^ One can rock even without electric guitars; that's what Weather Report does. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2007 at 04:21
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:


Eberhard Weber solo might be a bit off limits for PA. I'm listening to Colours of Chlöe right now, and although it's really good stuff, it's not rock - and definitely not progressive rock. He's a great player though!


Of course it's jazz, but so are Weather Report, Pat Metheny and John Abercrombie. Eberhard Weber's prog affinities are at least as striking as theirs.
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