^I didn't know that the Roundhouse was a standing venue. It was home to the Pentangle before they became very big in Europe.

^Yes, sometimes lysergic music requires the use of a lysergic agent.

I like the way different subsections just kind of emerge naturally out of improvisation in their extended pieces. They created it out of an ebb and flow in intensity. Stuff would ratchet up, gradually settle down and then more intensity would creep in again. How much of that was attributable to an impetus from Syd or the group dynamic, I don't know. When Syd was maintaining the quiet moments he frequently played muted strings in percussive fashion. The purpose may have been to do something different, or it may have just been to keep the people dancing. Floyd fans back then were into dancing in a way later fans weren't. Anyhow, I don't know of anyone before then who played the guitar quite so percussively. The periods of high and low intensity seem to foreshadow the later more highly arranged pieces Prog became well known for. Early Floyd made the transitions without pre-arranged bridging sections. Later Floyd and later Prog in general had more varied and perhaps more tasteful transitions, but Interstellar Overdrive and Astronomy Domine broke a lot of ground nevertheless. The first Nektar album followed in the same fashion as early Floyd. They had different sub-sections to pieces in which transitions mainly came about by fading a pice out and dialing it up again with an altered theme. Later Nektar, especially by the time of Recycled, had more arranged pieces with different subsections with more thoughtful transitions.

Edited by HackettFan - August 12 2015 at 18:37

TODDLER wrote: brainstormer wrote: Did he sing all the songs on the Floyd albums he was on?   Not totally. Astronomy Domine has a harmony vocal and it might be Waters backing Syd Barrett. Additionally on "Matilda Mother" ..it may be Waters or an overdubbed vocal of Syd Barrett. Difficult for me to tell...as sometimes, Wright and Waters sang in the style of Syd. "Corporal Clegg" is supposedly Roger Waters singing lead, yet it sounds very much like Syd Barrett. Rick Wright's vocal work can be matched with similarities to Syd Barrett's on very early Wright songs...such as B sides to their singles. Syd Barrett sang lead on most of Piper and lead only on one track from Saucerful which was Jugband Blues. "Scream Thy Last Scream" , written during his last days with the Floyd featured Nick Mason on lead vocal and Syd Barrett singing along with Mason, yet octaves higher in pitch, sped up more or less, emulating the same sound used for Alvin and the Chipmunks. On the BBC Sessions '67, it is easier to tell the difference between Waters voice and Barrett's. This cd contains rare versions of "Astronomy Domine", "The Gnome", "Scarecrow" "Set The Controls" , (which has Syd Barrett on guitar), "Matilda Mother", "Flaming", "Scream Thy Last Scream" and "Vegetable Man". I highly recommend this cd to anyone who appreciates the early Floyd. I have the "so called" original studio recordings of "Vegetable Man" and "Scream Thy Last Scream" and I enjoy them quite more than the BBC recordings because they are not as stripped down.

I would really love to get this BBC CD you talk of, but as far as I know it's not officially released, and I wouldn't know how to get it. I have been wishing the BBC concerts (or some other early early concert with Gilmour already on it) were to be officially released, but a concert with Syd on it would be just about as interesting for me.

Very Interesting Toddler.  Bravo. That would be impossible today that a song as "Emily Play" becomes a hit !

Toddler: great take on Syd.  I especially liked your point about how his songs lend themselves to different arrangements.  I’m not a musician myself, but I’ve often found myself imagining what else could be done with existing pieces of music.  Could be a subject for a whole new thread.

 

I’m not ready to pin a genius (or any other) tag on him, but one has to wonder how Syd’s career would have gone if he hadn’t let himself become an acid casualty.

Did he sing all the songs on the Floyd albums he was on? 

Roger Waters, Rick Wright, and David Gilmour , (Gilmour to a less degree), were all influenced By Syd Barrett's original style of writing. In the early days of the Floyd, Waters and Wright didn't actually know how to write or form structure before harmony or have insight on what to leave out that sounded unprofessional, unfitting, or even logically incorrect. Over a period of time...they observed Syd Barrett's ideas on writing a little more closely and after he was gone, they began to write and everything came natural to them over a course of time. I've done this with musician friends that died, where I'm writing a piece, strumming or finger picking a chord and thinking "what would Bobby have done?" and that's because he influenced me to bring his spirit or way of doing things into my music. It's as simple as that. It is the overall psychological impression and influence of someone else in your life that can cause you to either slightly emulate them, or write exactly like them. For Waters, it was evident in the song "If" and several short songs on "The Wall". Originally Rick Wright was adding very special keyboard parts to Syd Barrett's songs and really not writing anything himself...just adding ideas to a structure already written by Syd. "Take Up Thy Stethoscope And Walk" is not exactly good songwriting to me. It could never compare to "Astronomy Domine". You can personally do so many things with that song. If you wanted to...you could add creepy violins playing the 1-2-3-, 1-2-3- pattern during the verse. You could easily change that song into Symphonic or you could allow organ to dominate it as an ELP version. Anyone who can write a song that gives most musicians visions on how to do it differently or actually observing dimensions which are evident and inspiring ideas to re-record the piece....is usually a genius. 

micky wrote: genius?  It really does seem to be a label tossed about too easily he was creative and was definitely a tragic figure.. but Christ man... he wasn't the only one of that era. Let's call them all genius's as well. Skip Spence.. now that was the tragic loss ..cutting the heart of what could have been one of the greats of the era.... Floyd continued on and prospered. Moby Grape couldn't and didn't.

Hmm... I'm staying out of this debate, but I don't feel that genius is overused in the music world because it usually denotes an innovator with a specific vision for a specific form of music, as opposed to a musical virtuoso. Now, that's a term that's  been really abused.If we look closer at artists like Spence with the Oar album, editing had a lot to do with how much of a 'genius' that Skip sounded like. If you listen to the Sundazed remaster with the previously unreleased bonus tracks included, most of the bonus cuts were Skip meandering on bass (he was a good bassist, though) with stream of consciousness lyrics. What worked was included on the original 1969 Oar vinyl. What didn't was left on the cutting room floor, as the expression goes. So, there's a lot more involved in what makes up a genius, then who we consider one to be. 

Edited by SteveG - August 10 2015 at 13:57

Real Hype easily, I don't know how anyone could call 'Bike' genius.