The American Politics Thread

So Perez takes the DNC chair... disappointed yet encouraged.  I saw who backed him and they know ..better than anyone. In fact I read they warned Hillary about the pitfalls of her campaign strategy.  So there is hope lesson were learned.

oh, and meanwhile this happened:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/25/who-is-nils-bildt-swedish-national-security-advisor-interviewed-by-fox-news-is-a-mystery-to-swedes/?utm_term=.94cb7c446a82

well done, Fox News

It seems old Trump has got himself into a war with the NY Times that I'm quite sure will sink him. Calling the Times and CNN fake news was like waving a red flag. Now, watch these bulls charge.

he does have the potential to destroy that party... and they knew it that is why the establishment never fully backed him. he was completely unfit, both in experience and temperment and with some serious ethnical issues hanging over him. They knew it...  of course more than half the country knew it... just Trump voter ignored the warning signs along with opportunist politicians or the simply wacko nativist racist far alt-right and dead-end career political types like Pence who was going down in flames in his own state and took the offer of VP that no one else wanted.

There is no loyalty to Trump..only to the Republican brand name. Trust me Madon..  they already know he is damaging it but obviously they are stuck with him..however if they have a chance..if he continues down this path and/or ties to Russia are proven... they will get rid of him. They are already worrying about the 2018 mid terms ...

rogerthat wrote: micky wrote: well... you did ask if there was reason to be alarmist.  Of course there is but the conclusion is not in doubt, thus where all the parallels with the past end.  Trump will lose his fight... Nixon did.. no man is bigger than the system. He can not change it, it doesn't matter if for benevalent or nefarous reasons. We have a 250 year tradition of democracy and seperation of powers.  Yes one can be alarmed.. and Americans should. But the point I'm hammering home is it not Trump that should be cause of the alarm. He is a sh*t stain slidmark in one's Jockies.  He will either finally discover he can not fight the system and win and thus moderate, or he doesn't and he goes down in flames. It the beauty of the system we have here and there is nothing he can do about it. the real reason for alarm.. as I've noted quite in my typically unsubtle way.. is not Trump.. it is those that put him there ignoring all the warning signs.  An ignorant uneducated.... HYPER PARTISAN electorate is much more a theat to democracy than Trump himself is. Agreed fully.  My assessment, not to speculate darkly, is that if Trump goes too far, he will either get impeached or assassinated.   But the bigger worry is the lack of support for democracy among, um, the voters to whom it matters most.  Yes, the decisions of such an electorate will in any case cripple the functioning of democracy owing to the breakdown of bipartisan co-operation.  Hyper partisanship is very much in fashion nowadays but some of the great reforms in govt have often been made possible by a polity that was prepared to join hands for a good cause rather than blindly oppose each other.  In India, the most important reforms were in fact carried out by a coalition govt where the single largest party did not have sufficient numbers to constitute a majority.  This happened only 26 years back, which is not such a long time in history, but it feels like a very long time ago.  It wouldn't happen today.

yeah.. as I noted last night. At first I blew off the musings of those who wondered if Trump would last until 2020.  See here's the kicker.... the judidicary?  Pretty well covered... the press?  oh yeah baby.. you bet your sweet ass that is being covered. What is not perhaps is his subtle 3rd war and more than the other two.. this one could well get him impeached... if he does have something to hide and personally I think the ones wearing the tin foil hats are the ones that think he DOES NOT have something big he is hiding.

that 3rd war? Less well known perhaps. The Washington bureaucracy.. a professional apolitical establishment that Trump is well on his way to completely alienating.  Leaks?  We haven't seen nothing yet , and whatever he is hiding...  well put it this way.. if he is..  it will see the light of day and if it is Russian money as many suspect. He is gone...  doesn't matter if the GOP still holds the reigns of Legislative power.. that comes out he is toast in 2020. He likely is already due to doing what Hillary couldn't and mobilizing and energizing the apathetic.. but much more numerous Democratic Party.

Congress will impeach him for many reasons, Pence is much more their kind and they'll get rid of Trump to try to save their legislative asses in 2018/2020 and try to have a fighting chance in the next Presidential election.

rogerthat wrote: micky wrote: rogerthat wrote: micky wrote: seems to me you answered your own question While one can be melodramatic and compare where we are at now in this country to Germany of the 30's, even though there are significant differences, it doesn't take much brain power and obviously a working knowledge of history and politics to recognize the fact there are even parallels (and some strong ones at that) to be drawn between the two should be warning signs to any thoughtful American that we should be worried about where we are and still might go. To be clear, I meant that accepting the argument that free speech can be stifled for an ostensibly good cause (under the garb of free speech being dangerous in that context) is dangerous because it can open the door for dangerous characters to appropriate the same stance for their purposes.  Never thought I'd see the day that a mainstream news channel is blocked out of White House press briefings in USA.  Since my knowledge of US history is pretty deficient...is this a first or are people being too alarmist?  At any rate, the Statue of Liberty's got to be shedding copious tears right now. No doubt man.. uncharted water we are in here.  No is not necessarily a first, but a second, but we all know how the Nixon Presidency went down. The greatest threat to the notions of democracy and the Constitution this country had ever seen, and here we are in 2017 back at the same place. So no, people are not being too alarmist.  The very foundations of democracy and constitutional power are at play.  In less than two months Trump has gone to war with the Judiciary, the primary constitutional watchdog of executive power, and of course the press the primary unofficial watchdog of executive power. Why?  Let Americans answer that for themselves. America is due a great deal of soul searching.. and none more than Trump voters. For they are to blame for this.  How quickly they forgot the lesson of the past, and ignored the obvious warning signs SO on display last year during the campaign that this guy was dangerous, had some serious issues.. mentally and ethically. Seriously..  he didn't release his tax returns. Did Trump voters ask themselves once.. even once.. why? What he was hiding? That's why I asked.  So the Great Dick was there too?  Funny, not to claim wisdom in hindsight, but in Trump's acceptance speech on results day, I did hear echoes of Nixon's reference to the silent majority.  Trump however seems to be much more crude in his methods.  What Mr. Modi achieves slyly and silently, he is doing with a full frontal assault and the whole world is watching.  I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing.  It's good in the sense people get to know his true colours very early in the game but it's bad in the sense of the damage he is doing to democratic institutions as you have mentioned.  I heard somebody from Fox News defended CNN and decried the ban?   Better late than never.  I do think CNN has been shading left for some time now, but surely blocking them or any other channel from press briefings is unacceptable and surely everyone realises that.  Because if they don't, there's no hope for democracy.

well... you did ask if there was reason to be alarmist.  Of course there is but the conclusion is not in doubt, thus where all the parallels with the past end.  Trump will lose his fight... Nixon did.. no man is bigger than the system. He can not change it, it doesn't matter if for benevalent or nefarous reasons. We have a 250 year tradition of democracy and seperation of powers.  Yes one can be alarmed.. and Americans should.

But the point I'm hammering home is it not Trump that should be cause of the alarm. He is a sh*t stain slidmark in one's Jockies.  He will either finally discover he can not fight the system and win and thus moderate, or he doesn't and he goes down in flames. It the beauty of the system we have here and there is nothing he can do about it.

the real reason for alarm.. as I've noted quite in my typically unsubtle way.. is not Trump.. it is those that put him there ignoring all the warning signs.  An ignorant uneducated.... HYPER PARTISAN electorate is much more a threat to this country than Trump himself is. He'll be gone.. either by next year by my prediction or in 4 years. However Trump voter remains....


Edited by micky - February 25 2017 at 08:11

rogerthat wrote: micky wrote: seems to me you answered your own question While one can be melodramatic and compare where we are at now in this country to Germany of the 30's, even though there are significant differences, it doesn't take much brain power and obviously a working knowledge of history and politics to recognize the fact there are even parallels (and some strong ones at that) to be drawn between the two should be warning signs to any thoughtful American that we should be worried about where we are and still might go. To be clear, I meant that accepting the argument that free speech can be stifled for an ostensibly good cause (under the garb of free speech being dangerous in that context) is dangerous because it can open the door for dangerous characters to appropriate the same stance for their purposes.  Never thought I'd see the day that a mainstream news channel is blocked out of White House press briefings in USA.  Since my knowledge of US history is pretty deficient...is this a first or are people being too alarmist?  At any rate, the Statue of Liberty's got to be shedding copious tears right now.

No doubt man.. uncharted water we are in here.  No is not necessarily a first, but a second, but we all know how the Nixon Presidency went down. The greatest threat to the notions of democracy and the Constitution this country had ever seen, and here we are in 2017 back at the same place. So no, people are not being too alarmist.  The very foundations of democracy and constitutional power are at play.  In less than two months Trump has gone to war with the Judiciary, the primary constitutional watchdog of executive power, and of course the press the primary unofficial watchdog of executive power. Why?  Let Americans answer that for themselves.

America is due a great deal of soul searching.. and none more than Trump voters. For they are to blame for this.  How quickly they forgot the lesson of the past, and ignored the obvious warning signs SO on display last year during the campaign that this guy was dangerous, had some serious issues.. mentally and ethically.

Seriously..  he didn't release his tax returns. Did Trump voters ask themselves once.. even once.. why? What he was hiding?


Edited by micky - February 25 2017 at 07:07

so the DNC election is this weekend... wonder who gets the Chair..

nice to see the first post mortums of the November debacle are starting to roll in and they hammer home what was likely the root cause. Will the DNC election reflect that....

Hillary lost millions of votes into the ether... rural voters and it cost her the election. Trump voters didn't just come from nowhere. He got roughly the same number of votes Romney did when Romney got crushed in 2012. Urban voters turned out big time, that is to be expected, it was the rural voters the party forgot and they forgot the party and didn't simply didn't bother to vote, perhaps thinking (as everyone did) that Clinton had it anyway.. or just were so turned off by her that they voted 3rd Party or again didn't vote.

The lesson? One I'm happy to see it didn't take long to see recognized...  grassroots activism. It has sprung up thanks to Trump, will the establishment recognize that and nuture it and perhaps take back one of both houses of Congress in 2018, or work contrary to it or independently of it and stick to big money centrist policies and leaders. We shall see. I think there are enough smart people around to recognize that Ellison, and his supporters, are the future of the party moving forward and he wins it.


Edited by micky - February 25 2017 at 06:51

rogerthat wrote: The Dark Elf wrote: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/24/white-house-blocks-cnn-new-york-times-from-press-briefing-hours-after-trump-slams-media/?postshare=7661487977175791&tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.aac18271dd18 "The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1787 "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." - George Washington, 1783 Still don't believe we have the makings of a corporate dictatorship? How about Steve Bannon, the resident drunken fascist in the White House (who, by the way, makes Dick Cheney look like Lincoln emancipating the slaves), said, "if you look at these Cabinet appointees, they were selected for a reason, and that is the deconstruction." This administration is intent on destroying the Republic -- its freedoms, its environment and its people, starting with the easiest marks, the immigrants, then other religions and then people who don't "fit in" socially (like the LGBTQ folks). It is already happening (and I would suggest reading William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" to see the parallels with Nazism -- in such a way did they start). Their interests are not constitutional. Their goals are not to better America. These people are full of sh*t. They are dangerous. They need to go. Sorry to interject here but why are we recollecting the importance of free speech now?  Because I have heard a few times on here and generally on the internet that "freedom of expression is not important", said to defend the political correctness doctrine, obviously.  It's not my intention to start a blame game.  All water under the bridge now that this guy is in power.  But I just hope that next time we will not forget the words, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."  There is no democracy without liberty.  If you surrender your liberty for one cause believing it to be good, remember somebody else whom you completely loathe and regard as evil may also impinge on your freedom citing a case he/she believes to be good.  There is absolutely no excuse for stifling the free speech of citizens and rather insisting it to be a dangerous thing is what is a dangerous argument in the first place.

seems to me you answered your own question While one can be melodramatic and compare where we are at now in this country to Germany of the 30's, even though there are significant differences, it doesn't take much brain power and obviously a working knowledge of history and politics to recognize the fact there are even parallels (and some strong ones at that) to be drawn between the two should be warning signs to any thoughtful American that we should be worried about where we are and still might go.

rogerthat wrote: Sorry to interject here but why are we recollecting the importance of free speech now?  Because I have heard a few times on here and generally on the internet that "freedom of expression is not important", said to defend the political correctness doctrine, obviously.