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Topic ClosedTrolls scare a band from PA
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Eetu Pellonpaa View Drop Down
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Points: 4828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 21:50
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I would abolish ratings only.

Simples(er).


Second!


Thirded from my part, I hope this possibly futile and here off-topic issue would have it's own discussion.
Separation could be the first stage of eliminating the ratings, and later introducing capability to do a over 200 word review without rating.

I understand why M@x could have opinion for reviews, as they give faster some sort of uncohesion for the albums (hey this is a masterpiece, uh this one with neat covers is only for fans duh), but I personally think a well written essay about the record gives more credit to both the album and and the page promoting it.

However this is a fine place even as it is, but wihtout force majeur demands I hope it is ok to toss around ideas of people's personal future enhancement ideas possibly never happening? Smile
Great that the thread also served it's purpose and the person left is coming back Party
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 21:33
Not really an answer but you do write good reviews. Just wondering, some weighted reviews are hardly worth the extra points. Yours at least are worth the extra weight.
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 21:26
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

So you write a review for the points it counts for?


All my reviews count the same.  Wink
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 21:19
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Did not realize it was a game. You are winning cuz i am not playing.


Yes! I win!Big smile
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 21:06
Did not realize it was a game. You are winning cuz i am not playing.
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 21:04
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

So you write a review for the points it counts for?


Getting points is the only way to win the game. How many points do you have? I bet I am beating you.
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:59
So you write a review for the points it counts for?
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:38
Seriously, eliminate ratings only.

The "I can't speak English" facilitation argument has always been weak to me.

If this were a Spanish prog rock site, I would do my best to translate my reviews.  I wouldn't waste my time with a rating when a review counts as ten or twenty times.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Barbu View Drop Down
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Points: 30850 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:29
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I would abolish ratings only.Simples(er).


I been a supporter of this radical option, but M@X wants them
So Dean's solution is the best IMO
Iván 
Who is this M@X you speak of?  Confused


This one :

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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:25
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I would abolish ratings only.

Simples(er).

I been a supporter of this radical option, but M@X wants them

So Dean's solution is the best IMO

Iván 


Who is this M@X you speak of?  Confused
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:07
Speaking of ratings without reviews, would Dean or some other friendly admin mind removing any ratings without reviews done by me, when you are not too busy? They are all unintentional and a product of errant mouseclicks and I find it extremely frustrating that I cannot undo them myself.
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CCVP View Drop Down
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:04
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I would abolish ratings only.

Simples(er).

I been a supporter of this radical option, but M@X wants them

So Dean's solution is the best IMO

Iván 

Indeed. And lets not forget this is the internet, people. Most of it is in English (or at least the biggest chunk of it) and it is the only lingua franca we have left. So, in order to participate on the international stuff you will need English. I've never agreed with this restriction here in PA and I do believe it's a reflex from the Quebecois origins of many of PAs founders.


Edited by CCVP - November 12 2012 at 20:07
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:41
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I would abolish ratings only.

Simples(er).

I been a supporter of this radical option, but M@X wants them

So Dean's solution is the best IMO

Iván 
            
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:40
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I would abolish ratings only.

Simples(er).


Second!
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:40
OK. Life Line Project is back.

Thanks Dean for the info.

Iván
            
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:27
I would abolish ratings only.

Simples(er).
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:17
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Life Line Project Life Line Project wrote:

I sent M@x a long mail (in French) reporting this problem on October 18, but he never sent a reply!! Last Wednesday I finally decided to leave PA and contacted M@x again.
The only response I got the next day is: "Will do right now. Done. Sorry about that.
So it took you a few tries but you finally got results and received a very thoughtful email back from M@x apologizing and immediately fixing the problem.  I'd be pleased.
David, Eric asked for his band to be removed from the PA, and that's what Max did - that's not fixing the problem.
Maybe, but his request was fulfilled with an apology.  


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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:06
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It won't make the problem worse and that is worth the risk IMO. If the blue meanies give an album their 1-star ratings then so what? They're doing that now and we cannot stop them. We can always delete the abusing ratings if the disparity between rating-only and review-only averages is too great.

With or without separation you and other admins have to have guns always loaded. Smile.
We (what am I saying? I'm the Admin who does this year after year) I will not have to load my gun quite so often. I've said this before - I'm lazy, the less work I have to do around here the more will get done. With the two methods seperated we will be able to tell when abuse is occuring a lot sooner because the two averages will start to diverge quicker when abuse is happening.
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

And what's the use of separation?
The level of abuse that can occur in review-only chart/averages will be much less - it will be a fairer representation of the album.
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

We have now a rating system, where ratings and reviews without ratings made by collabs and non-collabs have different weights.
We could do without weightings, or at least have a more representative weighting system - at  the moment we encourage abuse of the rating-only system because we have weighting and we have weighting because abuse happens - it's Catch 21ž + ź.
 
With two seperate charts the weighting becomes a reward for collaborating rather than a punishment for abuse.
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Is it good or bad, but we used to live with it. It's not completely democratic, but it sums up opinions. 
But it doesn't sum up opinion at all. Why is the yearly chart is not the same as the Collabs Top Albums list? - surely if the yearly chart was a fair and democratic sumation of opinion then the two lists would be very similar, afterall most of the reviews are written by the same collabs who vote in the Collabs Top Album list. Is our opinion really so far out of whack with the opinions of the casual visitor?
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Why separated system will be better?
They won't be worse and they won't be the same, ergo they will be better. Simples. Wink


Edited by Dean - November 12 2012 at 19:07
What?
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NotAProghead View Drop Down
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Points: 7865 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 17:09
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It won't make the problem worse and that is worth the risk IMO. If the blue meanies give an album their 1-star ratings then so what? They're doing that now and we cannot stop them. We can always delete the abusing ratings if the disparity between rating-only and review-only averages is too great.

With or without separation you and other admins have to have guns always loaded. Smile
And what's the use of separation?
We have now a rating system, where ratings and reviews without ratings made by collabs and non-collabs have different weights. Is it good or bad, but we used to live with it. It's not completely democratic, but it sums up opinions. 
Why separated system will be better?

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't see what principles are being broken - expecting people to post something on the forum breaks PA principles because it mean that they have to be able to post in English and that's not only against the ethos behind having ratings-only, it is unfair on people who cannot write in English.
I have to agree, saying "breaking principles" was too much. You're right.




Edited by NotAProghead - November 12 2012 at 17:11
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 17:06
Good news guys

Quote Hi Iván,
 
Because of all the developments on PA Erik decided to return. I think that is good news. Some other members of PA also adviced Erik to return.
Could you take care of it?
Erik likes to thank you again for all your help. You are a true friend.
Erik isn't able to answer you himself, because he has no internet connection at the moment.
 
All the best,
Dorinde

I'll do it ASAP
            
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