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Textbook 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281 |
 Posted: December 13 2010 at 18:02 |
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None, he has none Ivan, you're right, everything you say is right, you're the king of philosophers. PF: It seems to me that you have decided that no set of facts could prove a religion true. That means any set of facts presented you will deny. This means religion can never be proved true to you. This means you are closed to the idea of religion being true because it can't be proven to you.
Not well written but you know what I mean.
This is not actually a problem though. Do you need to open to everything? Do you need to be open to the idea that murder and rape might be good things? No. So similarly one can be closed on something evil/destructive like religion without there being any problem.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:59 |
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Being that I'm so gullible and that my brain falling out could you tell me which evidence do you have that denies my beliefs? Iván
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:39 |
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Why say never? That's really unscientific. I'm simply a skeptic. That doesn't preclude open-mindedness ... I'm simply waiting for the Theists to make a convincing case. As long as it's not convincing, rejecting it does not make me close minded.
Remember that Iván believes until proven wrong. That is what Feynman referred to with "brains fall out". It's gullibility. It's not being open minded, it's not caring about whether what you believe is true. So, I'm open minded by my definition, not by Iván's. By my definition he's close minded, because he's ignoring evidence that's contrary to his beliefs.My skepticism, however, does not conflict with any demonstrable facts.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:14 |
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Mr PF: Are you open minded really? Because I had to admit the other day that I'm not. If I was open-minded, I would have to concede the possibility of coming around and being persuaded that theism was valid and joining an organised religion.
However, I do not admit this possibility. I will never join an organised religion. Never ever. I guess therefore I'm not truely open-minded on religion.
Are you saying that you concede that times could change and you could convert one day?
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:03 |
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^^^
 I knew that would piss you off, Iván. I simply know how to push your buttons.Well, by your definition I'm close minded ... I have no problem with that. I am *actually* open minded, and you're simply confusing open mindedness with gullibility. But since you don't care about whether you're actually right - because you already *know* it can't be the Atheist, we'll never get anywhere with this discussion. Over and out.
 Edited by Mr ProgFreak - December 13 2010 at 17:05 |
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 16:57 |
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But Ivan, he's *right*. |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 15:27 |
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Well venturing back in here was a lot less fun than I was hoping. But while we're talking about Feynmann and religion, this is an excellent video.
Perhaps the "Miracles" video did have a point after all... |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 15:04 |
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Please Mike, what argument do you have to call me ignorant? On the other hand, i can affirm with arguments that the ignorance is your's Mike.
The guy, who's name I don't know or care says "I'm acused of being close minded, I have to admit there's truth in the accusation" He's accepting to be close minded The guy also says:
And you dare to say he's not intolerant and devoted to his own opinion? BTW: Your brain won't fall for believing in God, But your quote of Richard Feynman, reveals that you admit to be close minded. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 13 2010 at 15:30 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 15:04 |
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DOUBLE POST DELETED BY THE AUTHOR
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 13 2010 at 15:08 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 14:53 |
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If you had quoted my complete statement,. you would had seen both words are perfectly compatible
Evangelism is not only biblical teachings it's also
Some atheists:
Don't tell me me this is not a militant crusade against religion. Iván |
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 14:16 |
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You always call us close minded or bigots ... which is only revealing your own ignorance. Consider another quote, most often attributed to Richard Feynman (paraphrased): It's nice to be open minded - but not so much that your brains fall out.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 14:12 |
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I love to argue about this topic - I've often mentioned that. I can't really explain why - I'm not buying the often used argument that the more someone talks about something, the less he actually believes it, and he's only looking for confirmation. I genuinely like arguments about that topic - that's why I also love to watch formal debates. Looking back at the last twelve months or so - it was great. And I learned a lot about science in the process. And all the quotes ... like that one by Steven Weinberg: "One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious" |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 14:03 |
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Such a concept has no meaning. The two words don't coexist.
Thanks Ian
Edited by Snow Dog - December 13 2010 at 14:04 |
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rpe9p
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2008 Location: Charlottesville Status: Offline Points: 485 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 14:00 |
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Stop kidding yourself, you love seeing theists present flawed arguments because it makes you feel good about yourself. Otherwise why would you start this thread if the question was already settled in your mind? Or is your objective really to "convert" the Theists
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 13:54 |
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He feels contaminated in presence of religion and don't want to listen any argument, buy he insults and attacks every person who has the sin to not agree with him.......But hey, nobody can tell him anything....Sorry, this guy is a close minded bigot, no matter how paused he talks We don't pay propaganda saying "Convert to Catholicism", but atheists pay millions to promote atheism in buses, newspapers, TV, etc. Our Church has never asked me money to share their truth (as a fact Catholic Church don't asks us money exceptcents in Church and it's voluntary), this guys make millions selling their books and giving well paid conferences around the world. Pot...Kettle?. God, some atheists are amazing Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 13 2010 at 14:02 |
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 13:53 |
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My point is not really the provocative nature of the video ... it's rather this:
I wish Theists would stop presenting arguments they know are flawed, because at their foundation, when you follow the causal chain, lies the requirement of faith - so they're not really what us skeptics asked for.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 13:50 |
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I remember when Four Lions came out there was a report on suicide bombers which said that they were not generally deviously cunning religious fanatics, but sad, socially inept bumblers who had their strings pulled by Iago-like masters.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 13:21 |
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 13:09 |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: December 13 2010 at 13:08 |
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Awesome. Case closed.
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Theism vs. Atheism ... will it ever be settled?
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Mr ProgFreak wrote:
