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Should I give ELP another try? |
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Tom Ozric 
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Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
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 Posted: April 18 2020 at 05:01 |
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f**k I hate typing in things with my iPod........I’m forever correcting........
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jamesbaldwin
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Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5989 |
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Posted: April 18 2020 at 04:55 |
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I dont love ELP. I am not a fan, but I listen to their firsts 4 albums 4-5 times a year. My personal opinion? Nice (Ars Longa) and EL&P were very very important for the history of prog, especially for symphonic prog, so for my knowledge was important to listen to them. I is a good album, the most accesible, and maybe the best. The beginning, the firsts two songs are beautiful, but the rest ... not so much. Tarkus is a good album, includes their best elaborate suite (but the side with conventional songs is modest). Pictures is their worse album, embarassing. Trilogy isn't bad, but it's modest. Brain Salad is a good albu. May you like it? ... oh well ... it depends ... it contains their mastodontic suite Karn Evil 9: a great effort but... Is it a masterpiece? No, in my opinion, no. For 12 minutes it is very forced, almost irritating. Maybe you can like Tarkus (the suite) or Brain Salad (The songs or the Suite)... In short: in my opinion EL&P have not published any real masterpiece bu their contribution to symphonic prog was relevant and every albums (and suite) contains some genial passages or some beautiful songs. Greg Lake is a wonderful singer and every time it's a pleasure listen to his voice. Their problem was not try to actually sound classical or downright play classical pieces, because most of the time they did a good work with single songs (not in Pictures), their problems were two: 1) They were not great composers in terms of melody (Greg Lake was the best) 2) They exagerate with virtuosistic passages all together, especially Emerson and Palmer: in this way they produced a lot of smoke but little roast, they distract the listener to the theme of the music and transform most emotion into din. Ok, this is my opinion, tastes are tastes, EL&P lovers please dont shoot on the piano man, pardon, on the writer! PS It has happened also in the history of classical music: hardly a great virtuoso was also a great composer, because he tends to slobber, to exceed in virtuosity rather than in composition. Edited by jamesbaldwin - April 18 2020 at 05:05 |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Tom Ozric
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Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
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Posted: April 18 2020 at 04:39 |
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He’s. Do it and crack it...should t tabs much..... z
Pictures at an Exhibition sold me in seconds flat..... |
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Tendiwa
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Joined: January 14 2020 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Posted: April 18 2020 at 04:24 |
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I just finished listening to Tarkus. The title track is pretty epic. It maybe needs a few more listens to fully appreciate it. But I did enjoy it. Nothing of the gimmicky stuff I expected. Then side two. Jeremy Bender. What and why? Luckily after this short silly song the albums picks up pace again with Bitches Crystal. I could've done without The Only Way. The pipe organ is such a majestic instrument, but this song is pretty lame. Then Infinite Space is a very nice track. Then another alright song. And the album ends with another song that is pretty silly, but also kind of fun. Side two is pretty patchy and it's too bad they didn't maintain the grandiose of the first side.
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Kristian_Cole
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Joined: January 31 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Posted: April 18 2020 at 02:11 |
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kick me to death but........i could never get into them........
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17527 |
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Posted: April 18 2020 at 01:35 |
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Hi, Welcome to the board ... I think that at one time things sounded and looked gimmicky, and I always thought that things like Switched on Jack Face was one of the things that kinda made classical music seem silly in other instruments, only to find, several months later TOMITA doing Debussy ... Not everything is "gimmicky", and some folks are serious about their music. Before you tackle the next ELP thing, try listening to Rachel Flowers piano version of TARKUS and also the piano version of THE ENDLESS ENIGMA ... and then go ahead and get your next ELP album ... I would get TARKUS next ... I have never thought of it as "gimmicky" for the 50 years I have heard Keith and try and hear TAKE A PEBBLE from the first album ... it's all piano ... and you will find one of the great composers in music ... My take still is, after 50 years that this IS OUR TIME, and that THE CURRENT EXPRESSION is "electric" and thus, the majority of works will be electric and some will sound gimmicky, but are not. My thoughts are that if Keith tried to sell his "piano concerts" to a school of music, or even the young fans at the time, he will get laughed off and completely wasted ... and for my ears and taste, I find this sad ... Rich Wright is also very classical with a jazz touch, but you have to separate his stuff from all the PF material, to find it ... and many other "keyboard" players are gimmicky ... for example, for my tastes RW is very gimmicky! Why? It's almost the same lead, but on a different instrument/sound, and while it is still "classical" in a sense, I've thought many times that he was simply doing the easy thing ... just a riff here, another riff there, and then a riff here ... and to me that is much less classical than what Keith EVER did ... how the heck was he going to show his mates what he came up with? They would not "fit" into a piano thing at all ... too classical and traditional otherwise. Before you give ELP another try, may I ask that you try looking at some of this stuff a bit different ... Banco, Ange, and many other bands with massive keyboards (2 of them in both cases), are extremely classical, and it is not a gimmick like PG ... it is much better dialed in.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28070 |
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Posted: April 18 2020 at 00:25 |
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On the subject of Greg Lake ballads I would only maybe put Still You Turn Me On into the 'gooey' category from ELP's classic period. From The Beginning is actually a very beautiful song and not really about 'love' but more about introspection and accepting our weaknesses. The mini-moog solo on that song is also wonderful (one of Emo's best) Yep the Works period did see Lake 'let out of his cage' a bit in tandem with Pete Sinfield (who actually wrote the lyrics so it's really his fault) That aside from the afore mentioned Watching Over You which was about his then baby daughter Natasha . He wrote the song as a lullaby and actually I find it rather sweet , so shoot me if you must!
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richardh
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Posted: April 18 2020 at 00:16 |
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I just stuck to the studio stuff but I do agree with you mostly. I play that Montreal DVD more than any other DVD despite the poor sound quality. The band were incredibly tight and they obviously worked hard to get to that. Live At Nassau is also brilliant as you point out. I would quibble a bit with Canario only in that I would rather it was a bit longer. I feel on this track that the band are working up to something special and then they just 'blow their load' so to speak. Compare it to the fantastic end section of Hoedown and you should get what I mean.
Edited by richardh - April 18 2020 at 00:18 |
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Cosmiclawnmower
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Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 3664 |
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Posted: April 17 2020 at 14:36 |
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This is my feeling too. I loved The Nice and the first ELP album. Bits of Tarkus and Trilogy are very good. I'm afraid I just cant stand Greg Lakes voice or his gooey ballads- I once saw Jim Davidson (the supposed comedian from the 70s) doing a version of 'Watching over you' on some awful tv show
 (shame there isn't an Emoji for vomiting) and that was the last straw.. but I am a big Keith Emerson fan! |
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43731 |
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Posted: April 17 2020 at 14:00 |
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 I find this funny, although I think you did not mean it to be funny.
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Green Shield Stamp
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Joined: February 17 2009 Location: Telford, UK Status: Offline Points: 933 |
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Posted: April 17 2020 at 13:56 |
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Life’s too short. Why not listen to things you like instead?
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Haiku
Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic.... |
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verslibre
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Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17196 |
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 10:21 |
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I think Greg sounds just fine, especially on "The Miracle," "Touch and Go" and "Step Aside." But I'm biased. I love that album. I like Black Moon, too (I saw them play at the Wiltern), but I think it's a little less consistent. I also prefer the version of "Romeo and Juliet" that's on Keith's Changing States, retitled "Montagues and Capulets."
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ExittheLemming
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Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 09:52 |
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You could take a slightly different approach if you are discouraged by the many classical references from the '70 to '74 period e.g. start with Black Moon from 1992 which is a vastly underappreciated collection of short symphonic Prog tunes where a welcome 'modern' economy is
evident i.e. no long conceptual suites and just the one classical adaptation (Prokofiev but with a Hendrixy kinda vibe) After that, the closest album that inhabits that stylistic spirit is maybe the ELPowell offering from 1986 I've always felt that if you took the classical influence out of ELP you would end up with something that resembles an Argent/Greenslade hybrid. |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18300 |
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 09:43 |
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With the possible exception of Tocatta I don't think the drumming was ever better or at least more exciting than on the debut also.
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dr wu23
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Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20624 |
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 09:23 |
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Really...the first one is all you really need...imho they never topped that one even with the much praised Tarkus track.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Rick1
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Joined: April 14 2020 Location: Loughborough UK Status: Offline Points: 2792 |
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 01:38 |
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This review misses the point that on the Works Tour, ELP were still sh*t hot live. Anyone unconvinced by this should try the 'Live at Nassau' album. The live versions of 'The Enemy God', 'Tank' and 'Pirates' - without the orchestra - are breathtaking. Emerson skillfully rearranges those songs. 'Works Live' is also worth investigating - I was never a fan of 'Abaddon's Bolero' that gets a new lease of life as well. Oh, and 'Canario' off 'Love Beach' is storming as well - shame that was never performed live.
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geekfreak
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 00:30 |
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Excellent review
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28070 |
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 00:22 |
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The first album is very eclectic and varied but still as classically influenced as anything they did. My brief summation of the other studio albums: Tarkus- Side One is their masterpeice although I hardly evern listen to it as I much prefer the live version from Welcome Back My Friends Trilogy - Much more 'complete' and the lyrics are less Sc-fi dominated. Lake never sounded better and there is lots of lovely mini-moog, great piano work and hammond (on Hoedown) from Keith. Carl sounds a little less like he's had 10 cups of coffee. This album should be more appreciated imo. Brain Salad Surgey - One for the fans maybe. Sci-fi themes dominates and Lake's voice is almost computerised. Palmer is amazing on this album if you are a conniseure of drumming. Up there with Peart on Moving Pictures and Bruford on Red. Lots of synths but a much more compressed sound production wise as Offord was no longer around. Works Volume One - The second phase of the group after 3 years doing not much but a few solo projects. bills needed to be paid and that dominated the next few years. Works Vol Two - Ditto Love Beach - for a few dollars more Emerson, Lake and Powell - the band returns with a different drummer and a heavily Yamaha GX1 dominated sound. Lake shouts a lot and it all comes across as so trying to recreate the past that it hurts. Black Moon - Very decent late offering that is a bit overlooked . More song based but the Hammond returns and the Yamaha is consigned to history. In The Hot Seat - sh*t! Edited by richardh - April 16 2020 at 00:24 |
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verslibre
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 09:55 |
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Brain Salad Surgery is the one to revisit. |
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TCat
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 09:42 |
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To give them a fair shake, you should at least check out the albums "Tarkus", "Trilogy" and "Brain Salad Surgery" (which is where you will find Karn Evil 9) as these are probably less "classically influenced" sounding (though most of their music is classically influenced).
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Tendiwa wrote: