The future of the GOP

Epignosis wrote: None of this partisanship will matter.  The debt will ruin us and then there will be no social programs nor military funded. I just wonder how liberals will blame (true) fiscal conservatives for the house of cards collapsing in our lifetime.

"How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Debt"

Slartibartfast wrote: You guys just don't take losing easily. Enjoy.

And you guys just take.

You are a fool who think it is about "winning" or "losing". Enjoy your very expensive team-sports triumph.

Liars who tell nicer lies. It's easier to swallow "you will receive this and that" than "you have to work for this and that".

Not that Romney really ever said the latter anyway...

dtguitarfan wrote: The T wrote: Ok this thread has derailed. I will do what has to be done:  Would the GOP at least defeat Hitler in future America? Ah, now here is a very, very interesting question. I believe that the reason the Republican party lost in a situation where everyone was saying they should be able to win (first president to win a 2nd term with the unemployment rate being what it is) was that they have been, as David Frum put it, fleecing, exploiting, and lying to the conservatives of our nation and leading them to believe that a good man WAS Hitler. They have lost all credibility. I have been saying this for years, and the response that always comes back is "well, Democrats lie too." But in the video/story I posted a link to (which was ignored), you have a warrior from within your own ranks calling out the lies. I truly believe that had Romney won, it would have been a victory for hate, fear, and lies. And this does not come from a "blue dog Democrat", this comes from a former Republican who saw the lies at work within himself and was disgusted.

The T wrote: Ok this thread has derailed. I will do what has to be done:  Would the GOP at least defeat Hitler in future America?

Ah, now here is a very, very interesting question. I believe that the reason the Republican party lost in a situation where everyone was saying they should be able to win (first president to win a 2nd term with the unemployment rate being what it is) was that they have been, as David Frum put it, fleecing, exploiting, and lying to the conservatives of our nation and leading them to believe that a good man WAS Hitler. They have lost all credibility. I have been saying this for years, and the response that always comes back is "well, Democrats lie too." But in the video/story I posted a link to (which was ignored), you have a warrior from within your own ranks calling out the lies. I truly believe that had Romney won, it would have been a victory for hate, fear, and lies. And this does not come from a "blue dog Democrat", this comes from a former Republican who saw the lies at work within himself and was disgusted.

^Yes because I'm quite sure it would to Stalin

Ok this thread has derailed. I will do what has to be done: 

Dean wrote: thellama73 wrote: I never contended that coercion is always bad (although I think the violation of someone's property rights is always wrong, regardless of the agent), but my point was that you should be very careful about what you are willing to enforce using coercion, since any conflict in which neither party is willing to back down will ultimately result in violence. I find it perfectly acceptable to use violence to prevent killing, raping and stealing, but I do not find it acceptable to use violence to make one person pay another person's bills. I just think people are too careless about the laws they support and don't think through the logical consequences of enforcement. Before you support any law, you should think about how far you would be willing to go to enforce it, if you had to. That was all I was trying to say. I accept all that. It would be lovely if many things were never ingrained in law and we could trust people (and by that I mean individuals, corporations and governments) to do the right thing. I like universal healthcare and do not perceive it as the demon spawn of a despotic tyrant - I do not trust the free market to provide healthcare and nothing I have seen of private healthcare makes me wish to change my opinion. It would be great if there was another way, but there isn't because the world has selfish people who would begrudge healthcare to those who cannot afford it and there are life-preserving health treatments that are prohibitively expensive to all but a very (very) select few. Insurance (in the classic sense of the word) can only provide universal healthcare if everyone signs up to it, so if that means a coercive law is required then so be it, because the alternatives don't appear to be that tenable to me.

So what you're saying is Universal Health Care is the worst idea ever, except for all the others I guess.

thellama73 wrote: although I think the violation of someone's property rights is always wrong, regardless of the agent

Because it's so fun to twist other people's statements to ridiculous degrees to make them look bad, let me ask you: Do you support slavery? Forbidding a person from owning another person limits their property rights.